Stihl side tensioners - Asian Flavor

[afleetcommand]

Yup used brass tubing to shim the one end...even works with the farmertec adjusters

 

[afleetcommand]

In that last video i did on them again I think

 

[Jimmy in NC]

In that last video i did on them again I think

@afleetcommand

I am guessing this video at the 14:50 mark?

Could you get some stills or do a quick close up video of this shim? Why could you not use the Hyway adjuster?

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[Jimmy in NC]

So armed with a clue [Walt's comment of a shim] I went looking for what he was shimming with tubing. I noticed while playing with my 066 clone last night the OEM adjuster I stuck in there felt less than stellar. Hmmm.

Opened it up and whoa! It was chowdering the OEM Stihl gear. Hmm... Something is certainly not working here. Again gear mesh is off...

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[Jimmy in NC]

Ok.. I poked around a bit and notice the adjuster screw flopping around. Note the space between the end of the shaft and the case. Also note a carb tuning screw driver fits between the case due to the flopping around of this... we are on to something

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[Jimmy in NC]

As I did not have any brass tube shim stock I used what I had... soda can. Cutting a very narrow strip (the width of the shaft beyond the pinion gear) I was able to roll it up and make a shim. I think it ended up going completely around twice. Now the cleaned up OEM gears work smooth(r) again. I need to spend more time seeing if I can clean up the shim a bit but for proof of concept it worked!

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[Jimmy in NC]

Now I opened up the MS360 parts kit saw. Looking at the adjuster in this set of cases, the pinion gear is very snug in its case pocket. This along with larger gear diameter, explains why this adjuster works nicely. Also this may explain why AM adjusters work fairly well in OEM cases.

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[Jimmy in NC]

Why post all of this? It's my nature not to just say junk.. it's the "Why is it not working." Knowing a few things to check show what may be adjusted quickly and easily for others in the future building these saws. I honestly think if I had the technology to build an offset shim, the kit provided adjuster may could be made to work.

Again I would love to hear from Walt / AFleetCommand why the Hyway adjuster did NOT work in his last saw build? The video glossed right over that.

I have also been made aware there is a bulletin from Stihl that discusses a running change in these adjusters on the OEM side. That also may be part of the root issue with the cloning. Just like the 034Super cylinders included with MS360 muffler in those parts kits. Same family but not quiet compatible.

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[paragonbuilder]

Why post all of this? It's my nature not to just say junk.. it's the "Why is it not working." Knowing a few things to check show what may be adjusted quickly and easily for others in the future building these saws. I honestly think if I had the technology to build an offset shim, the kit provided adjuster may could be made to work.

Again I would love to hear from Walt / AFleetCommand why the Hyway adjuster did NOT work in his last saw build? The video glossed right over that.

I have also been made aware there is a bulletin from Stihl that discusses a running change in these adjusters on the OEM side. That also may be part of the root issue with the cloning. Just like the 034Super cylinders included with MS360 muffler in those parts kits. Same family but not quiet compatible.

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Thanks Jimmy! I too like to understand the why and how. Thanks for showing this. Now I know what to look for when I open my China saws.


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[Jimmy in NC]

Thanks Jimmy! I too like to understand the why and how. Thanks for showing this. Now I know what to look for when I open my China saws.


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I read a bunch of these threads.. way more than I post. I almost get a sense of hostility at points from people expecting a $250 saw kit to go smoothly; they wont! I used this 066 kit for a long time for just what it was intended for, a complete parts kit! People would call and I'd have parts on hand. I'd order a replacement part and pitch it back in the box. It was handy as hell and kept customers happy.

Growing up in a shop, dealing with high performance motors, I've seen some motors work damn good and some with the same specs be so-so. It all had to deal with cumulative error and which end of tolerances things fell on. These kit saws are a perfect example of those situations.

I want to see how these play out. Instead of calling them garbage, if one can work through and understand the problems, correcting them may be easy. From there you can decide do you want to work through those problems OR buy and OEM and deal with the damage that's been inflicted on it. For me to buy a used OEM MS660 I'd plan on $300-400. Add in a full rebuild, anything else that's beat up.. I can quickly end up at over $600 into a saw. These kits, maybe $150-200 less total after built and tweaks worked through, but it looks nice, I do not spend half a day cleaning and degreasing parts, and I think I have this one running better than the OEM saws right now. Will it hold up? I don't know. I do not plan to use it everyday. Will I ever get the chain tensioner silky smooth? Probably not. Can I work within it's limits for the 3-4 times a year I'll fire this up? You bet I can.

I'll update as I play with the tensioners more. I'm also still curious to other's experiences if you have explored. Someone like Walt have been through more of these kits than I will ever do. They have working knowledge that is priceless.

 

[Stump Shot]

I read a bunch of these threads.. way more than I post. I almost get a sense of hostility at points from people expecting a $250 saw kit to go smoothly; they wont! I used this 066 kit for a long time for just what it was intended for, a complete parts kit! People would call and I'd have parts on hand. I'd order a replacement part and pitch it back in the box. It was handy as hell and kept customers happy.

Growing up in a shop, dealing with high performance motors, I've seen some motors work damn good and some with the same specs be so-so. It all had to deal with cumulative error and which end of tolerances things fell on. These kit saws are a perfect example of those situations.

I want to see how these play out. Instead of calling them garbage, if one can work through and understand the problems, correcting them may be easy. From there you can decide do you want to work through those problems OR buy and OEM and deal with the damage that's been inflicted on it. For me to buy a used OEM MS660 I'd plan on $300-400. Add in a full rebuild, anything else that's beat up.. I can quickly end up at over $600 into a saw. These kits, maybe $150-200 less total after built and tweaks worked through, but it looks nice, I do not spend half a day cleaning and degreasing parts, and I think I have this one running better than the OEM saws right now. Will it hold up? I don't know. I do not plan to use it everyday. Will I ever get the chain tensioner silky smooth? Probably not. Can I work within it's limits for the 3-4 times a year I'll fire this up? You bet I can.

I'll update as I play with the tensioners more. I'm also still curious to other's experiences if you have explored. Someone like Walt have been through more of these kits than I will ever do. They have working knowledge that is priceless.

Yes, these kits need to have a mechanic work them over to make a running saw. Any expectation that this is plug and play is not going to happen. Would be like buying tools at Harbor freight and expecting Snap-On quality. While you won't have a $1200.00 saw when you are done, you will have something interesting to play with that you might not otherwise. I like that you fixed the issue and made it work. This is what it's going to take to get through the issues that are sure to come up with these kit saw's. Maybe the success of some has raised the expectation level past a reasonable level. So folks need to remember that for every success, failures had to be worked out.

 

[huskihl]

I read a bunch of these threads.. way more than I post. I almost get a sense of hostility at points from people expecting a $250 saw kit to go smoothly; they wont! I used this 066 kit for a long time for just what it was intended for, a complete parts kit! People would call and I'd have parts on hand. I'd order a replacement part and pitch it back in the box. It was handy as hell and kept customers happy.

Growing up in a shop, dealing with high performance motors, I've seen some motors work damn good and some with the same specs be so-so. It all had to deal with cumulative error and which end of tolerances things fell on. These kit saws are a perfect example of those situations.

I want to see how these play out. Instead of calling them garbage, if one can work through and understand the problems, correcting them may be easy. From there you can decide do you want to work through those problems OR buy and OEM and deal with the damage that's been inflicted on it. For me to buy a used OEM MS660 I'd plan on $300-400. Add in a full rebuild, anything else that's beat up.. I can quickly end up at over $600 into a saw. These kits, maybe $150-200 less total after built and tweaks worked through, but it looks nice, I do not spend half a day cleaning and degreasing parts, and I think I have this one running better than the OEM saws right now. Will it hold up? I don't know. I do not plan to use it everyday. Will I ever get the chain tensioner silky smooth? Probably not. Can I work within it's limits for the 3-4 times a year I'll fire this up? You bet I can.

I'll update as I play with the tensioners more. I'm also still curious to other's experiences if you have explored. Someone like Walt have been through more of these kits than I will ever do. They have working knowledge that is priceless.

I like your take on this whole situation. I fully agree

 

[afleetcommand]

Yup. Use brass tube stock to make little shims to take up space and get better gear alignment. Used a few technics, including epoxy & sheet metal, just anything to take up slop and won't wear quickly. Many ways to accomplish the same thing. The Hyway gears were too large in diameter, At least what was shipped. Who knows maybe I got a wrong part, since I only tried one, wasn't going to say much until I get a few and see a trend. Did a video a while back...two years now? About these AM parts saws as then there wasn't a complete box concept. Nothing has really changes in that with the right attitude, these things are a blast, but if you expect OEM fit, finish, and quality throught; you will be disappointed. Looks at them as a "puzzle" with little things to work around and they are a lot of fun.

Been trying to find a mix of non OEM parts to get to the level of functionality and reliability to actually be able to get these ready for real work. THATS been a challenge. BUT seems to be achievable... I had said 2 years ago to plan on $400 plus your time for a hobby/firewood saw. That is still pretty much correct. Kit plus some tactical substituted OEM parts. Now for the true "work" saw, plan on $600 plus your time is where things are heading.....and that begs the question...start with OEM and build?? Or just buy OEM new as time is money? Like the hobby saw discussion it simply depends on your skill set and priorities...

As a quick update:
a) 2 of the origional "test" saws are still being used to produce firewood ... for firewood suppliers. They get worked seasonally. They had things like Hyway Handles, Shimmed chain adjusters, better clutch drums, etc. the issues of that time.
b) 1 of the early "Big Bores" is also in seasonal use with similar correction/modifications.
c) My "Bling Saw" and "Farmer Jones" builds still run fine and get occasional use. Actually the "Farmer Jones" build IS my primary "Big Saw". It rips. Love that thing. It along with a couple of 562 based saws are what I've used for a while now. Even lent the "Farmer Jones" build out for a month with the "logger" who tests my saws...it survived. He's upset I never gave it back. My first 56mm has been retired...and it has nothing wrong. Just moved on to other saws.
d) Two of the last "test" saws with newer kits and Hyway parts are currently in use by a logger and so far...haven't come back. Its been a month or two.
e) The "Hyway" and HLsupply parts saw is back in the shop with carb related running issues. Haven't looked at it yet as the Snow plow has taken all my time.
f) There are three more out from the 2016 time frame that haven't come back. No news is good news I guess.
g) I have another build concept with better bearings and seals started when I have time, along with a OEM MS660 beater the will be brought back to life...someday.

 

[Wood Doctor]

I can throw in two cents here. The kit I got from Farmertech (Hutzl) for my 046 Mag contained a threaded shaft on the adjusting screw with the wrong threads that would not even work with the tensioner slide that came with it nor the one that I already had. In short, the threads were worthless. That's what I call Chinese quality control.

 

[MustangMike]

I had some trouble with all the bar adjusters on the Asian 660s.

The first one I just ripped one out of a MS460 and it worked fine.

For the next two, I ordered some from HL Supply. They seemed to be of better quality, and smoother to operate (not installed), but would not work when installed in the Asian 660. Was not sure if the spacing of the Asian 660 was the same as stock, so I did not blame the HL parts.

Just hogged out the case on both saws and got the Asian adjusters that came with the saw to work. They do seem to improve with use.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Just a short note. I tried every metric nut I could find with both RH and LH threads and not one would mesh. I considered keeping this part, but luckily the OEM assembly that was not working seemed to work better after I packed it with a bunch of Moly grease. It's still tougher than it should be, but I will live with it.

I've always thought that this whole chain tensioner assembly has too many parts that are destined to go haywire. Stihl should have simplified it long ago.

 

[Jimmy in NC]

I had some trouble with all the bar adjusters on the Asian 660s.

The first one I just ripped one out of a MS460 and it worked fine.

For the next two, I ordered some from HL Supply. They seemed to be of better quality, and smoother to operate (not installed), but would not work when installed in the Asian 660. Was not sure if the spacing of the Asian 660 was the same as stock, so I did not blame the HL parts.

Just hogged out the case on both saws and got the Asian adjusters that came with the saw to work. They do seem to improve with use.

Where did you have to hog out the case?

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[MustangMike]

The large gear that goes in vertical was rubbing the sides around the circle. I just opened it up a bit with a grinder in my drill. Crude, but effective. Someone else had done it before I did it.

The large Asian gear is larger than OEM or the HL one.

 

[Wood Doctor]

You may notice a 7 x 1.5 O-ring that fits behind that gear. These wear out and will actually disappear in time. When that happens, the rubbing starts in and the assembly starts tearing itself apart. Whenever I replace one of those O-rings, the assembly seems to operate smoother.

 

[MustangMike]

As an update, to get the Asian 660 chain adjusters to work, you have to assess each saw individually. What works on one may not work on another.

Some needed shims (thanks for that advice), others did not. Sometimes other (or OEM) parts worked, sometimes not. Some need a washer under the large gear to align it better, etc. I just look at it and try to figure what is making it not work, and sometimes I just have to experiment with them, but I do get them to work.