Stihl new bar design

[ManiacalMark]

What’s the ETA on these bars?

 

[schreib69]

In my opinion, the MS 261 (either Mtronic or Carb) is a good mid-range saw. At 4 hp and 11 lbs with the option to use .325 or 3/8 (and apparently 3/8p) chain, you get power at a lighter weight. The MS 311 is 4.2 hp but sits at 13.5 lbs and has a larger footprint. The 261 won't wear you out like a larger saw will do if used for any amount of time, but it will take care of smaller stuff without issue with power. For you, I think the 261 falls in between what you have:

025 : 10 lbs, 3 hp
261 : 11 lbs, 4 hp
462 : 13 lbs, 5.9 hp

Depends on how you use your 462 and 025, the 261 could be great when you need a more power than the 025, but don't want the weight of the 462. I run a 20" bar on my 261 and it works well for both small stuff and larger stuff, though I think bumping it up to a 25" wouldn't be an issue.

thanks for your time and the detail!

 

[legdelimber]

cough,wild, cough,thing,cough

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Yes I agree,

I would really find it hard to pay more for a different grind on a full chisel chain.
Edit: even if it does cut faster, oh and then you need a more expensive file.. ..

 

[hacskaroly]

It was worse than the hexa chain fan boy crap until they started getting teased for being dumb enough to pay 80 bucks a chain.

If I am going to spend $80 on a chain, then it better be a Duro chain or spend three times as much and get a spool of Archer.

 

[AlexStromberg]

The bars with the graphics on them are made in the US. Stihl opened up a bar manufacturing building on the east coast and all of the bars produce there have the graphics on them. One thing that messes up a lot of people are the .325 bars with the logo are all .050 gauge (most of the older ones are .063). All of the new saws we had coming through work had these new bars and when people came in looking for chain, if they didn't know for sure what they had, it became a guessing game due to how long ago they bought it.

While the new bars may be a little lighter, I don't see the necessity/difference especially on the shorter bars. A 25", 28" or 32" light bar makes sense to me, but not the shorter ones

Or just look on the side of the bar?

 

[hacskaroly]

Or just look on the side of the bar?

Looking at the side of the bar for the chain information is super helpful, but unfortunately customers will come in and say I have an (insert number in inches) bar and need a chain. When asking them for more information they usually shrug their shoulders assuming there is only one chain for that size bar. Sometimes they take a picture of the information on the bar or happen to have the chainsaw in their vehicle, but some times if they really need the chain, they buy both the .050 and .063 version and return the unused one next time they are in the store.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

All I know is every stihl laminate bar I bought in the last two years has failed in short order from bad roller tips to severe rail wear, all were junked before a single chain was used up so I swore never again would I spend money on one f their laminate bars. Their replaceable tip bars so far have done well. They released this marketing rebranding of their bars earlier this year and then word got out and my facebook chainsaw groups were full of idiots running out to buy them to throw on their garage queen saws for likes and views. It was worse than the hexa chain fan boy crap until they started getting teased for being dumb enough to pay 80 bucks a chain. At this point they might as well sell stickers and stencils as update kits.

I went through this same problem, only with the Oregon Versa cut bars. Every ham fisted hammer donkey at work broke the tail of the bar and burnt the rails up.
Some people can smash an anvil with a feather.
My only complaint about stihl light bars is they only come in stihl mounts.

 

[Ketchup]

The 04 lights are actually lighter than the previous generation. Not by much but they are lighter. I mod a lot of 3405 and 3409 for 2511 because they are still the most durable bar available in 1/4” with the small sprocket nose and they’re lighter than the other options.

It’s not a deal breaker, but every ounce counts on a baby trim saw. I’ll make 4-500 cuts in a big prune. Over half of them one handed. Any improvement in control is a good thing.

 

[Ketchup]

Looking at the side of the bar for the chain information is super helpful, but unfortunately customers will come in and say I have an (insert number in inches) bar and need a chain. When asking them for more information they usually shrug their shoulders assuming there is only one chain for that size bar. Sometimes they take a picture of the information on the bar or happen to have the chainsaw in their vehicle, but some times if they really need the chain, they buy both the .050 and .063 version and return the unused one next time they are in the store.

I needed a chain in a pinch a while back and went in to an Ace Hardware. I told the guy I needed .325 .050 RS 72dl, but he insisted he needed the saw model and bar length to get me the right chain. I said it was for my Echo 490/357 hybrid. I think one of his eyes rolled back in his head. He simply wouldn’t believe me that I knew what chain I needed. Then he insisted he didn’t have that chain when I could clearly see it hanging on the rack behind him. “I don’t even know what those numbers mean! Is it Green or Yellow?”
We got there…eventually. I guess he just deals with the customers you’re talking about.

 

[hacskaroly]

“I don’t even know what those numbers mean! Is it Green or Yellow?”

I loved it when customers knew exactly what they needed and they loved it when I walked right over and picked it out for them off of the wall of chains. When I started working in sales, I was clueless and my coworkers didn't have many answers. I didn't want to sound like an idiot when people asked for chains, luckily in our desk drawer I found a 2017 Oregon and a 2020 Stihl Bar and Chain catalog...so many of my questions were answered and I became very knowledgeable or at least knew where to go look for answers. The Oregon catalog was especially helpful to find out chain lengths for off brand saws (Echo, Dolmar, Mac....etc) that we didn't sell and could not walk over and take a look. My coworkers were in awe of the questions I could answer, I even made a few cheat sheets for them which got wore out pretty quickly from their use.

When I had customers in that obviously knew more than I did about chains, I would ask them questions and learn from them too, always something to learn.

 

[dougie]

Looking at the side of the bar for the chain information is super helpful, but unfortunately customers will come in and say I have an (insert number in inches) bar and need a chain. When asking them for more information they usually shrug their shoulders assuming there is only one chain for that size bar. Sometimes they take a picture of the information on the bar or happen to have the chainsaw in their vehicle, but some times if they really need the chain, they buy both the .050 and .063 version and return the unused one next time they are in the store.

I needed a chain in a pinch a while back and went in to an Ace Hardware. I told the guy I needed .325 .050 RS 72dl, but he insisted he needed the saw model and bar length to get me the right chain. I said it was for my Echo 490/357 hybrid. I think one of his eyes rolled back in his head. He simply wouldn’t believe me that I knew what chain I needed. Then he insisted he didn’t have that chain when I could clearly see it hanging on the rack behind him. “I don’t even know what those numbers mean! Is it Green or Yellow?”
We got there…eventually. I guess he just deals with the customers you’re talking about.

Yeah I am not sure how to take the Stihl / Ace relationship. They went from advertising they would never be sold in box stores, to Rural King and Ace both sell Stihl, but neither seem to be "into saws". Which is OK as one Ace near me is open Sundays, but the 2 RKs are an hour away in opposite directions.... The Ace open Sundays seems to only stock homeowner stuff... green bars and chains except for the 1 36" ES bar that must have been a mistake.

I went in to get a bar/chain for my 192t and rattled off the specs I needed. They guy knew enough to know I knew what I needed. Said most never know. The closest Ace to me, I have to play a bit of saw education every time I am there. Convinced them to stock more RSF loops, but told them getting the spools and making loops on the go would be even better... the tech tried but was told no by the GM. Oh well.

My nearest "real" Stihl dealer is 40 minutes away and I can only get there on Saturdays when they are open until noon.

dw

 

[hacskaroly]

Convinced them to stock more RSF loops, but told them getting the spools and making loops on the go would be even better... t

We sold chain off of spools, RSF went really fast, I finally was able to convince the store to have two spare spools in the back, after that we never ran out and corporate had time to order us more. I had a lot of people asking for RSX for milling, I pestered corporate for over a year to get a spool, they kept telling me that I would never sell it, nobody wants it. They finally relented and sent me a spool of RSX and I sold it all in under a month, since then, we have had spools on hand and have been selling it. Same thing happened with loggers tapes, they didn't think a $75 Husqvarna loggers tape would sell, they sent me two and those sold within a week, a couple of weeks later, we got two more and they sold within a week. I tried to help corporate stock what customers wanted, because if we have what they wanted then they will buy it from us and other things too while they are in the store. Some times stocking the correct stuff is an uphill battle.

 

[Squareground3691]

We sold chain off of spools, RSF went really fast, I finally was able to convince the store to have two spare spools in the back, after that we never ran out and corporate had time to order us more. I had a lot of people asking for RSX for milling, I pestered corporate for over a year to get a spool, they kept telling me that I would never sell it, nobody wants it. They finally relented and sent me a spool of RSX and I sold it all in under a month, since then, we have had spools on hand and have been selling it. Same thing happened with loggers tapes, they didn't think a $75 Husqvarna loggers tape would sell, they sent me two and those sold within a week, a couple of weeks later, we got two more and they sold within a week. I tried to help corporate stock what customers wanted, because if we have what they wanted then they will buy it from us and other things too while they are in the store. Some times stocking the correct stuff is an uphill battle.

That’s half the battle, stocking items that people actually want a lot, not the crap people don’t use or don’t want, that’s management for ya,

 

[hacskaroly]

That’s half the battle, stocking items that people actually want a lot

I get it that corporate is trying to order stuff for all of their stores, however, if one thing is selling really well in a store in a good size city (such as homeowner saws, trimmers and accessories) different stuff will sell better in my area where there are a lot of loggers. When some other stores sell a boat load of trimmer and medium size saws, its not uncommon for us to sell out of 500i, 661, 462, 572/592 saws and still have a bunch of trimmer saws around. A lot of times it is easy to tell if someone is a local buying a saw or if it is a California transplant by the type of saw being purchased and how they intend to use it. We have a lot of well dressed lumberjacks that want to clear the forest with a MS 170/180...

 

[Ketchup]

Stihl going to Ace really stabbed the local dealers. They’re barely hanging on.

 

[Squareground3691]

Stihl going to Ace really stabbed the local dealers. They’re barely hanging on.

That’s the shareholders way ,

 

[dougie]

Stihl going to Ace really stabbed the local dealers. They’re barely hanging on.

Yeah I used to have a local dealer close by, a John Deere / Stihl store. Was nice, they had usable hours for a firewood hack like me with a regular 9-5. The company that owned them got in some financial issues and closed the at least the store by me. It is now an equipment sharing location, whatever that is.... bunch of telehandlers and the like.

I can't even get to my local Ace before closing (6 PM) M-F as I work an hour from home so I am just rolling into town as they are closing the doors.

A gun store not too far away KYgunco, expanded and added an OPE store in the same building but they are locked to the guns stores hours, and they are 30 min away. Just no small dealers around me now.

The last small dealer near me was a rental business that sold to REP Rents, and their hours are M-F 7-5 (I mean WTH - I get they tailor to the professional equip renter but... I used to stop in there on Sat mornings to if I was heading to my property to get any needed items. Now not even Saturday is not an option. Oh well Ace it is...

Small dealers don't tend to have hours that cater to the novice/firewood hack/land owner with a 9-5 gig, or maybe any worker. If you are working M-F felling from sunrise until? How do you get to a saw shop that closes at 5 and not open weekends? Stay open one night until 8 pm, open at noon on Wednesday and stay open til 8, maybe T & Th. May be slow at 1st but bet it pay off in the long run once word got out.

dw

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

I put three new bars on the scale, all use the same driver link count:

STIHL 25" Rollomatic ES (Germany): 60.5 oz = 3.8 lb = 1.7 kg

Sugihara Lightweight 24" (Japan):
46.5 oz = 2.9 lb = 1.3 kg (23% lighter)

STIHL 25" Rollomatic ES Light (Germany):
41.5 oz = 2.6 lb = 1.2 kg (11% lighter yet)

To me the differences in handling are noticeable. If one considered the MS 400C "a bit heavy" with the ES bar it's "pretty darn good" with the ES Light bar.

As @cookies mentions, STIHL currently does not have a grease hole for the nose sprocket and considers them "permanently lubricated." I have to wonder if they designed the bearing system to use STIHL bar oil as it is very tacky and could possibly do the job--"permanently lubricated" seems a bit of a stretch. I run STIHL bar oil on ES bars ("E-Super" bars, not "E" bars which are laminate) and haven't had an issue. (The Sugihara has a grease hole.)

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

As far as STIHL being sold at ACE Hardware, it's been like that in my part of Wisconsin for over 10 years; I was surprised to see the local ACE carried a few STIHL homeowner chainsaws, smaller blowers, chains, and a few other STIHL tools. They did not advertise that they carried STIHL as far as I'd seen, thought I wasn't watching the ACE flyers for STIHL saws, and have not seen STIHL go "ON SALE!" anyway.