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Ronie's 660 kit saw

srcarr52

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I Paid $40 for my motor. Was on sale at HF. Used the crap out of it and no complaints yet. I lost the stupid brushes it came with... bearings will probably go first anyways haha

I’ve probably put 15 flex shafts, a couple sheaths and still haven’t had to replace the brushes on my Foredom SR. They start to make noise and sparking more than normal once in a while but running in reverse usually cleans it up.
 

MustangMike

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Guys, I got what looks like the same thing cheaper at Harbor Freight, but I would still like to get a right angle device at a reasonable price.

Not easy to get into transfers with this, but I do like the foot pedal. I mounted the holder on my wood trailer!
 

srcarr52

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Cerberus

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Ronie what a phenomenal posting / accounting here, have more than 1 read already but know I'll need more, thanks for making this!!

To clarify some things that I think I was off-base on/not getting...


You seem to really love low blowdown, like you're aiming for it, I had the opposite impression IE if I can get 25 instead of 22, that is awesome, I want to be positive the cylinder pressure has fully evacuated (and, perhaps if designed properly, I'm even experiencing the beginning of positive pressure from the muffler, which'd prevent charge spill-out in about a quarter rotation)
Had also thought it was just kinda "the norm", swear it's what most youtubers, Blair, Jennings etc all are adamant about not just "enough" blowdown but a mindset of erring towards more, rather than less (and the numbers you're posting...do you happen to know how wide your exhaust port was?) Would also expect tighter blowdown phase to be "more risky" the more compression and RPM's are bumped (as-in the usual quests here!)

And to be clear, you bailed on 56mm right? Did you happen to have any thoughts on why that one failed so badly? Not beating a 54mm by much is a fail, let alone not equalling one, let alone falling-short of a 54mm! I'll readily admit it took me (3) 56mm jugs before I got one working right, but it definitely outpowers my 54mm which was already as impressive as I could've imagined (don't have a dyno or anything, just know I can push a 32" very very quickly, can bore/plunge that whole 32" into an Oak trunk like it's hot butter almost lol, that one is about 101/125 or 126/78 54mm with pop-up)

I'll have to find the link but Re mufflers am glad to have found confirmation of front-plates being a bad idea (they just make no sense, have ruined some myself & see, in hindsight, why you don't want openings in the front, you want the charge to hit that expanded bottom, 'bloom' and roll/arch back at that exhaust flange with force, our engines lack ability to make use of sonic waves from the muffler but that's not all a good muffler/exp.chamber does, part of it is simply ensuring a 'push' on the exhaust flange to prevent excess charge spill-out, would imagine the Egan-type are among the worst in-cut but piss-rev highest)
Wish I had an idea just how large was ideal, I saw a video where they added a new exit on the top, and then top & side (all "in line" with the OEM, on the front/back axis), and the one with (3) holes won so it is obviously liking a hefty bit of breathing so long as it gets that initial hard burst at the flange, which to me just means bigger, further back exits are what's called for- would love seeing anyone's idea of a 'perfectly done' 660 OEM muffler-mod!

I saw that, If I don't cut the base and do a gasket delete it won't free port. This cylinder has a smaller combustion chamber than the Hyway so It might make good compression with just a gasket delete.
Hrm, on mine if I tried w/o the gasket it wouldn't turn past TDC, yet with-gasket I got around 36thou (and those gaskets are 18-18.5 compressed) so am unsure WTH I got wrong there obviously measured something wrong (maybe squish was much tighter than 36, and my solder was tougher than it shoulda been, so a 34 true squish only 'squished' the solder to 36....I've never assumed a solder-squish is 100% accurate, it cannot be as there is play in the piston movement so unless the solder runs around the band it's automatically off..)

Me reply?
I was quoting your post as a knowledgeable person in reference to the Freeport of the p/c in the previous posts. Merely as freeporting may not be a big deal.
Have heard this a few times now but Jennings & Blair both advise against it, and so far as my understanding of things a true freeporting would mean that right at the top of your intake port opening (TDC) when you're wanting/generating vacuum down there to pull-in intake charge to the crankcase, now you just opened a big hole (bottom of exhaust port) by freeporting...am genuinely surprised they even run OK at all if freeporting!
Would greatly appreciate any objective discussion of freeporting, why it's potentially not-so-bad, am not doubting it because I've heard enough discrete, professional sources all saying they've made/run beast saws that freeported so I'm not doubting it's OK but guess I kinda wondered "how much better could it have been if it didn't freeport?"

Like I said before, I wouldn't worry about it. It's actually a rich on deceleration problem, due to heat soak, too little pop off pressure, too low vapor pressure fuel. It's not going to hurt anything, it's getting plenty of fuel in the cut.

On an 066/660 if it's not pulling the rope out of your hand when starting it's fine. They really like a lot of timing, they run even better when they bite you once in a while starting but no one likes tempting monkey fist over a few 10's.
Can you elaborate on the "if it's not pulling the rope out of your hand" thing? I had to put a D-handle on my 56mm and even still I have to wear gloves, and it didn't even end up getting the pop-up it has a flat top (and exhaust of 99.5)
Also would love any hard # elaboration on timing, I got a bunch of keys and all I did was take 20thou off, replaced the key and called it a day...I know that can't be optimal, but it's like every source outside of chainsaw-forums is advocating you'd retard your timing in our types of builds...
Thanks for your reply here, you are sharp as hell that was a great post/diagnosis BTW!!!

They aren’t all that bad. I have a Tecomec cylinder on a 365 that runs as well as most. But it’s rare.
I ported a Meteor 661 cylinder and it was still 8% slower than stock oem. Pos
Did you diagnose why? The biggest difference I see in AM jugs is the transfer ports, the 56mm I'm currently using (with much pleasure!) had the *tiniest* transfer ports, the way these AM castings try sizing-up to 56mm is...interesting! Already mentioned it but took me 3 tries to get a 56mm that came in with good #'s (well, "was capable of good #'s" after work, but I take that as a given, couldn't imagine running an un-touched AM jug anymore than a farmertec piston-ring :p)

I took pictures and some width measurements of OEM vs AM 395. Big difference. The AM had significantly narrower transfer tubes, but similar uppers. The big bore version unnecessarily had even narrower tubes because they moved the inner tube wall to make room for more bore when there's enough material to have left it like the 56mm and bored it larger.

View attachment 307762 View attachment 307763

And the AM passes less than half the air through the fins than the OEM.
View attachment 307764
WOW I've never seen an AM with such thick fins that looks ridiculous! I have like half a dozen 54mm & 54mm 660's and not one has fins nearly that thick!
The transfer tubes aren't always smaller that way in fact on f.tec 56mm the tube has an almost worryingly-thin wall from lower to upper, the work is in widening how far back (and side-to-side of course) that tunnel is, I don't have a right angle grinder so I just bore-out the rear of the tunnel and effectively "make the uppers' ceiling go further back" before it begins curving down into the tract, effectively just creating more flow-potential where I can't easily raise the ceiling properly, although it is surprising how far you can widen your uppers' sides "chamfering" out, just have to watch locator-pin position!
 

Ronie

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You seem to really love low blowdown
I don't really have a lot of experience porting so I'm relying a lot what others have posted that seems to work for them.


And to be clear, you bailed on 56mm right? Did you happen to have any thoughts on why that one failed so badly?
I put a ported big bore kit on that Neotec 660 and it's doing ok, lots of torque, not a high rpm saw but it holds the rpm well when milling and that's all I'll be doing with that saw.
 

Jason628

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So... I sold my clone and bought another. Hopefully I didn't make a mistake as my clone saw ran very well for no modifications.
 

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