Regular carb vs. computer

[sawmikaze]

i will agree the price is high compared to the 661

They are actually right around the same price for me. My buddy bought one and loves it..but he came off an ms310..

Perspective is a hell of a thing.

 

[sawmikaze]

It's not a sturdy built saw (only has 3 AV mounts and they seem floppy), it's not a powerhouse for it's price, more expensive off the line and to fix. I'll pick a 661 7 days out of the week over that.

I wanna spend some time with a 500 on a 28" bar since that's what I'd run on one if it was my own saw. I probably made 25-30 cuts with one. 20 of those with a 25" bar and another 10 or so with a 32".

It didn't pull that 25" measurably better than my 462 and not as strong as my 661 with a 32...so...I don't know where it fits in for me personally.

And the price...

To each their own.

 

[ManiacalMark]

I wanna spend some time with a 500 on a 28" bar since that's what I'd run on one if it was my own saw. I probably made 25-30 cuts with one. 20 of those with a 25" bar and another 10 or so with a 32".

It didn't pull that 25" measurably better than my 462 and not as strong as my 661 with a 32...so...I don't know where it fits in for me personally.

And the price...

To each their own.

Exactly, I just don't see it as a huge step up from a 462 really. I also it as a big disappointment for filling the 461 spot.

 

[sawmikaze]

Exactly, I just don't see it as a huge step up from a 462 really. I also it as a big disappointment for filling the 461 spot.

It's just perspective of the user. I couldn't care less what people buy, but for me it's an expensive unproven tweener. I used to be a sucker for all the new sh!t and bought it to see for myself. I'm not making that mistake anymore.

The 462 was on a proven platform for me. M-tronic had already been around for almost a decade and I saw how they worked in a commercial environment.

 

[ManiacalMark]

Yeah it is all perspective, I know what I like pretty quick normally, how it feels in the hands and on the stump.

 

[sawmikaze]

Yeah it is all perspective, I know what I like pretty quick normally, how it feels in the hands and on the stump.

I don't really participate in the "best saw" type threads. It's a bunch of people with different uses. I'm sure a 500 will serve certain people just fine. I'm just not one of them.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

I don't really participate in the "best saw" type threads. It's a bunch of people with different uses. I'm sure a 500 will serve certain people just fine. I'm just not one of them.

Haha I do my stump cutting with a Homelite Super 1050a, I really missed the boat on the "new saw" gang. Operating that saw is like a correctional shower seen, its a fight ,tough , but the wood is going down.

 

[davidwyby]

So...been thinking about an auto tune for below sea level to 7600’... will they do it no prob?

 

[FergusonTO35]

If chainsaw EFI becomes as dependable as even 1990's EFI auto engines I'm all for it. I really like the idea of pressurized fuel delivery instead of diaphragms and adjusting screws. I am kind of biased, as I was an auto tech for my first career and computerized EFI is the norm for me. Guys who grew up with 60's muscle cars would feel the opposite way.

 

[MustangMike]

The trouble is that it is not direct injection, as a result I have not heard of any fuel savings.

That said, they seem to respond well to porting.

 

[Terry Syd]

I'm just 'old school', I like something I can fix with a screwdriver and a crescent wrench. I'm not afraid of electronics, I used to be a computer technician that worked down to the component level on complex computer systems. I just don't want to do that in the field or even in my shed.

I've got a POS Chinese 365 that I've bumped up to 77cc with a modded Zama. I'd like to see how such a modded saw would compare to other newer saws. (dyno time!)

Take an old worn out 365, build it with a newer 77cc jug with a pop-up piston and a modded Zama and see how much you may give away to one of the newer saws. I don't think it would be that much, if any.

An extra couple of seconds in a cut doesn't mean much to me at my age, wrestling the wood is a far bigger issue. - I do appreciate a lighter saw and bar, that's for sure.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

The carburetor is an almost perfect solution for it's application, when vacuum of the motor demands it feeds fuel based on the actual vacuum of the motor. That being said I have run a variable venturi Predator card on a hopped up truck and its leagues ahead of the traditional carburetor design, if the small carbs on power equipment could get a variable venturi and jet no one would even think about FI.
FI has a set electric limitation that is feed fairly reliable information from the sensors, but is just that .
I think once carburetors had a fairly decent design they all just kept selling it and developing new/better designs just went out the window.
FI can be controlled to pass any smog test and doesn't really need design constraints for placement, easier manufacturing and regulation requirements.

 

[00wyk]

My experience of years of work in forestry and firewood, much of it with MT saws, has lead me to track down a 462 non c.
Thank you, Stihl for giving some of us this option.

 

[drf256]

I was hugely against anything computerized till I actually owned one, and like Mustang, the MT saws became my go to.

Just built an 046 for a buddy and had to set it fat as hell so he wouldn’t burn it up-the truth is most guys don’t know how to tune a saw. Once a saw is ported, the window of safe tune becomes much narrower.

Autotune is the best thing since sliced bread until it malfunctions, but it rarely does. It is usually something else wrong with the saw and you just need to go down a diagnostic path that becomes different because the computer you can’t check is a new variable.

I’d vote to got MT and use good EtOH free fuel. The 462 is my favorite all around Stihl currently. The 500i makes some serious power ported, but it’s as expensive as a 661 and somewhere in between the 462 and 661 in size.

If a tree goes down here now, my logic on what to grab becomes “is it too big for the 261?”. If it is, I grab the 462. Both stay fueled and sharp in my shop ready to go. They always start and run at peak, on cold days, warm days, etc...

 

[livemusic]

I was hugely against anything computerized till I actually owned one, and like Mustang, the MT saws became my go to.

Just built an 046 for a buddy and had to set it fat as hell so he wouldn’t burn it up-the truth is most guys don’t know how to tune a saw. Once a saw is ported, the window of safe tune becomes much narrower.

Autotune is the best thing since sliced bread until it malfunctions, but it rarely does. It is usually something else wrong with the saw and you just need to go down a diagnostic path that becomes different because the computer you can’t check is a new variable.

I’d vote to got MT and use good EtOH free fuel. The 462 is my favorite all around Stihl currently. The 500i makes some serious power ported, but it’s as expensive as a 661 and somewhere in between the 462 and 661 in size.

If a tree goes down here now, my logic on what to grab becomes “is it too big for the 261?”. If it is, I grab the 462. Both stay fueled and sharp in my shop ready to go. They always start and run at peak, on cold days, warm days, etc...

If an MT or AT saw gets ported, do you have to do anything regarding fuel mixture or does MT just do its thing and it's good to go?

 

[morewood]

Just built an 046 for a buddy and had to set it fat as hell so he wouldn’t burn it up-the truth is most guys don’t know how to tune a saw. Once a saw is ported, the window of safe tune becomes much narrower.

I’d vote to got MT and use good EtOH free fuel. QUOTE]

These things are factual. I am what some would consider a firewood hack. I can honestly say I'm not great and almost good at tuning saws. Not my skill set. My last two saws have both been AT saws, and neither has failed me. Keep them maintained and full of E-free fuel and life should be good for a while. It could have been my last four but an 084 (ported) snuck it's way in. For an occasional use big ported saw I couldn't convince myself not to get it.

I'll continue to buy Mtronic/AT saws as needed.

Mr Awesome

 

[lehman live edge slab]

They will tune in to the new port work

 

[49er]

It's just perspective of the user. I couldn't care less what people buy, but for me it's an expensive unproven tweener. I used to be a sucker for all the new sh!t and bought it to see for myself. I'm not making that mistake anymore.

I was a sucker for the latest and greatest also. Now I am very satisfied with what I have.

 

[Terry Syd]

A saw doesn't run at all sorts of throttle settings and various conditions. You open it up and start cutting, the powerband is where you work. IMO a properly set up carb will deliver the idle, throttle response and the usable powerband that you need.

I just don't see the need for a complex electronic injection system when a very simple, inexpensive carburetor will do the job. I suspect that the move to injection systems has more to do with emissions than actual function.

The carbs went through a rough period of being compromised to meet emissions standards. Many on this forum have figured out how to block off the EPA circuit on Walbros or drilling the jets on Zamas. Perhaps that may be a reason that the factories have gone to electronic - to further distance the saw from the mechanical abilities of the owner.

 

[markds2]

No question I'd take a 661 over a 500. It's not even a tough decision.

I wouldn't trade any of my 661s in on one.

A 500s price and power don't line up for me.

Wait until you try a XS500i Ryan