Klotz Oil Thread

[huskihl]

sleds that have way more HP than 30 saws together

Fixed

 

[RI Chevy]

Just seems it has to be good oil for guys to run it in sleds that have way more HP than 30 Hooskie saws put together or just 20 STIHL saws!

FIXT. LMAO. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

 

[bwalker]

Anyone use it for saws? I sold my sled a year ago and have a gallon of the stuff. It says injection or premix oil. Yes I know it's for liquid cooled motors. Stay away or run it? Considering using it for general cutting and milling.

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It is not possible to meet all those standards with one oil.
I used this oil years ago in snowmobiles and was not impressed.

 

[bwalker]

I don’t know if I would run that. There are 2 things that are questionable: the 276* flashpoint and the film strength.

The 276* flashpoint means the oil itself will begin to burn at approx 276* (typically +/- 3%) which is well below typical cylinder temperatures of a chainsaw. That means the oil can lose it lubricity and contribute to carbon build up as it burns.

The film strength is respectable but I would expect better especially for high rpm as seen in chainsaws. Higher rpm requires better film strength and heavier film. Since it is only rated for 10,000 rpm I would imagine the film depth is on the thin side. The viscosity and pour point is quite low, which means the oil is very thin, too thin in my opinion.

This coupled with the suspension issues makes me question its viability for use in your saws.

Just my $0.02

The flash pont doesnt tell you anything other than the temp at which the diluent will ignite when exposed to an open flame. Usefull for storage and shipping purposes and not much else.
As for film strength. Do you really believe that one of the lowest stressed two cycle motors in existence really needs a high film strength oil? Do you realise there are trade offs with using a high film strength oil?

 

[usmcbuckwild]

The flash pont doesnt tell you anything other than the temp at which the diluent will ignite when exposed to an open flame. Usefull for storage and shipping purposes and not much else.
As for film strength. Do you really believe that one of the lowest stressed two cycle motors in existence really needs a high film strength oil? Do you realise there are trade offs with using a high film strength oil?

Flash point is not only for the storage and transportation purposes. Are we not exposing it to open flame when its mixed with gas and run in the cylinder? If the flash point is too low, the oil burns off too quickly and loses its effectiveness in lubricating. Caveat being if the flash point is too high, the oil won’t burn at all and will leave a gummy sooty mess in the cyl and will foul out the plug. The balance is what is needed. What is the temperature of the spark, flame kernel and resulting burn in the cyl? What are actual exhaust gas temps? Are we exceeding the quoted flash point and burning the oils off or are they being retained and gumming up the exhaust?

I absolutely realize there is a trade-off with film strength, one of which is viscosity and the additive package. Too much additive recipe not only doesn’t burn it can cause the oil to retain contaminants (soot, partially burned contaminants, carbon, etc.) and CAUSE micro scoring. The contaminants can also cause pre-mature corrosion to the subjected materials. Too much of a film causes build-up forcing the engine to work harder as the ring(s) scrape it, resulting in even higher cyl temperatures and excessive concentration of oil in the combustion chamber.

I do prefer a higher film strength oil. There are still 4 bearings in conjunction with the piston running at 15k or more rpms while being lubricated by a mist of mixed gas and oil. I would rather err on the side of caution and use better oil than chance wrecking a saw, or worse someone else’s saw. Again, just my opinion.

 

[smokey7]

Myself i ran saber outboard in my highly modded skis for several years. Every winter i was still doing a fresh bore and new pistons. I talked to Ben and switched to citgo sea and snow or mystic sea and snow. Now im on my second full season on 2 different motors with absolutely no sleeve or piston wear. Before i was out of spec on taper by the end of the season with the tcw3 oil. Im betting if i used any other low ash FD oil like the citgo or mystic i would have similar reduction in wear. I personally see with my own eyes the difference it made in my application by using a better oil made.

 

[RI Chevy]

Cool. Thanks for sharing.

 

[bwalker]

Flash point is not only for the storage and transportation purposes. Are we not exposing it to open flame when its mixed with gas and run in the cylinder? If the flash point is too low, the oil burns off too quickly and loses its effectiveness in lubricating. Caveat being if the flash point is too high, the oil won’t burn at all and will leave a gummy sooty mess in the cyl and will foul out the plug. The balance is what is needed. What is the temperature of the spark, flame kernel and resulting burn in the cyl? What are actual exhaust gas temps? Are we exceeding the quoted flash point and burning the oils off or are they being retained and gumming up the exhaust?

I absolutely realize there is a trade-off with film strength, one of which is viscosity and the additive package. Too much additive recipe not only doesn’t burn it can cause the oil to retain contaminants (soot, partially burned contaminants, carbon, etc.) and CAUSE micro scoring. The contaminants can also cause pre-mature corrosion to the subjected materials. Too much of a film causes build-up forcing the engine to work harder as the ring(s) scrape it, resulting in even higher cyl temperatures and excessive concentration of oil in the combustion chamber.

I do prefer a higher film strength oil. There are still 4 bearings in conjunction with the piston running at 15k or more rpms while being lubricated by a mist of mixed gas and oil. I would rather err on the side of caution and use better oil than chance wrecking a saw, or worse someone else’s saw. Again, just my opinion.

You are assuming that all the components of the oil have the same flash point. In reality the only thing it measures is the temp at which the lowest boiling point component ignites when exposed to an ignition source. This would be the dilluent, which is required to make sure the oil completely mixes with the fuel. I can assure you the lubricating oil does not begin to combust at the flash point listed for an oil.
And your motor isnt lubed by a mist of pre mix. Its lubricated by the oil alone as pre mixed fuel has almost no lubricant properties. When your fuel/ air mixture enters a hot motor the gasoline immediately flashes from a liquid droplet form to a vapor, which deposits the oil inside the motor.

 

[bwalker]

Myself i ran saber outboard in my highly modded skis for several years. Every winter i was still doing a fresh bore and new pistons. I talked to Ben and switched to citgo sea and snow or mystic sea and snow. Now im on my second full season on 2 different motors with absolutely no sleeve or piston wear. Before i was out of spec on taper by the end of the season with the tcw3 oil. Im betting if i used any other low ash FD oil like the citgo or mystic i would have similar reduction in wear. I personally see with my own eyes the difference it made in my application by using a better oil made.

TCW3 oils really suck in anything but a boat...

 

[smokey7]

Makes me wonder if one could use a fd type oil in a outboard as long as you didnt idle too long?

 

[bwalker]

Makes me wonder if one could use a fd type oil in a outboard as long as you didnt idle too long?

No. The constant high load results in wear due to the lighter base oil stocks used in FD oils and the buildup of mettalic deposits on the combustion chamber cause pre ignition. These two factors makes it not a good idea.

 

[Hfernandez]

Myself i ran saber outboard in my highly modded skis for several years. Every winter i was still doing a fresh bore and new pistons. I talked to Ben and switched to citgo sea and snow or mystic sea and snow. Now im on my second full season on 2 different motors with absolutely no sleeve or piston wear. Before i was out of spec on taper by the end of the season with the tcw3 oil. Im betting if i used any other low ash FD oil like the citgo or mystic i would have similar reduction in wear. I personally see with my own eyes the difference it made in my application by using a better oil made.

I have two questions for you sir.
1. Do you know which oils for chainsaws are specifically low ash, or how would a laymen's know which oil is low ash?
2. Do you have a preferred oil for chainsaws?

Thank you.

 

[bwalker]

I have two questions for you sir.
1. Do you know which oils for chainsaws are specifically low ash, or how would a laymen's know which oil is low ash?
2. Do you have a preferred oil for chainsaws?

Thank you.

If it's listed as TCW3 certified, claims to be ashless, is a universal oil or has any mention of marine use its an ashless oil and not good for a chainsaw.
The easiest way to get a quality oilnfor a chainsaw is to by one that is JASO FD certified. JASO maintained a list of such oils on their website.