EDTA Decarbonizing

[Eduardo K]

15-20 years ago Sea Foam was almost a secret. The first time I read about it was on a boating forum. There was a guy in NJ named dunk or dunc who was a wealth of info and he swore by it.
Nowadays, people on the web almost swear it helps with joint pain. I’m kidding about the joint pain, but everyone is doing some kind of fuel system or decarb with it.
Like I said, I’m not sure if it work better than the OEM branded stuff, but they’ve done a great job with marketing.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

@dustinwilt68 it was.

Thanks for the info. It would be interesting to try that in an ultrasonic cleaner, I'm not sure the EDTA percentage is high enough to dissolve the carbon by itself in a combustion chamber and exhaust port. It's quite a bit lower percentage wise than the Stihl stuff was.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

Of all the stuff I have tested, it works the best for the cost.

What works best?

 

[chiselbit]

What works best?

I think he was referring to the L.A. awesome?

 

[dustinwilt68]

LA awesome is good stuff for in a ultrasonic cleaner.

 

[huskyhank]

Here are some articles that might be interesting.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/the-lost-art-of-chemical-carbon-removal

https://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-engine-de-carbonizer.42116/

https://marcepinc.com/blog/7-steps-...nd-treatment-selection-in-thermal-power-plant (Half way down the page)

A good while back a somewhat popular method for cleaning rifle barrels involved using GM Top Engine Cleaner. The formula was revised over safety concerns. I don’t know if the current Top Engine cleaners work as well. There are multiple brands on the market.

EDTA is also used to passivate metals (see the boiler link above) essentially cleaning the metal back to the pure alloy. Its used in plating processes among others.

You might also look at Citric acid as a cleaner. You can buy enough to experiment with at the grocery store in the canning section. I use it a lot for cleaning metal.

Both the acids work on metals by combining with the free metal ions. The used solutions will have some pretty nasty contents. Otherwise in low concentrations they are both used in foods and are safe to handle.

Seafoam works with different chemistry, but might be useful for soaking a muffler. Buy a bottle and soak a muffler and let us know how it works.

 

[dustinwilt68]

I tried citrus acid cleaners, left alluminum crystallized, I don't reccomend it!

 

[Lightning Performance]

I did some trading on a 25 Rude and the first thing I did was hit the lake with it and a bottle of Sea Foam in a squirt bottle. I got the motor warmed up and took the cowl off so I could access the carb. Hit the lake wide open and drown it with Sea Foam, let it come back up and do it again. You could see the carbon in the exhaust coming out. That motor looks practically new inside!

This is the correct method to clean out an outboard. Most don't do it right.
Best answer there for that job.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I tried citrus acid cleaners, left alluminum crystallized, I don't reccomend it!

Agreed.
No point in taking off metal.

Looks like Seafoam or CRC556 , WD40 and something else gets the nod. Something local I can buy today.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

Little update. No risk, no reward. I bought a bulk bag of EDTA from amazon, it's a common food additive, supplement, and ingredient for soap making and lady products.

I mixed up a 20% solution. 250 ml of water to 1.7 oz's of EDTA. I poured it in a plastic container and dipped a mcculloch piston that was covered in carbon in it. A screwdriver wasn't taking the carbon off pre-dip. I let it sit overnight and checked it this morning. The carbon softened right up. A light pass with a screwdriver was lifting the carbon, I assume a brush would do the same. There was no apparent corrosion on the aluminum. The rings were already rusty as this piston and crank has been sitting out of a saw for probably 20 years, it's from a small engine shop buyout and came in a group of parts I picked up from the buyout guy.

So, I think this experiment was a success. Even without scraping I believe it will soften the carbon enough that it will blow out the exhaust without harming the engine. There is no odor and as long as you don't drink large quantities or get it in your eyes. It should be pretty safe to keep around. Also, one bag of edta will last a long time. I only had the piston half submerged, but even the parts I accidentally dipped in the EDTA were soft today. I'm guessing you would have similar effect with a small amount poured in the cylinder and tipped around to get full coverage.

Since the solution is mostly water, be careful. You don't want a bunch finding its way into your engine. Make sure to dump it out after a day, blow it out the best as possible, and maybe a few squirts of oil and some pulls with no plug in to get lube back in everywhere would be wise.

Work smarter, not harder guys.

 

[Lightning Performance]

All the usual stuff seems to do the same thing but without water.
Running the motor after your treatment would be wise to clear the moisturize and carbon out.

 

[huskyhank]

I wouldn’t use this in an assembled engine, but based of TF’s results I would use for parts that needed carbon deposits cleaned off.

Don’t know for a fact, but you might watch out for soaking a part partially submerged in EDTA solution. Some acid cleaners will make a line (etched) at the liquid/air interface.

 

[Egg Shooter]

I'm looking for a soaking cleaner as well. Work smarter not harder.

Try some wipe out gun barrel cleaner. It removes carbon very well. Can soak as long as needed and won't damage the metal like the amonia based solvents. Another is Aero croil penetrating oil. Wont disolve it but gets under it and softens it.

 

[Egg Shooter]

Just run Red Armor or Dominator

They’ll start cleaning themselves up

After 6 tanks of hard use with Sunoco Optima & Dominator (5oz/gallon), I didn’t even see a wash pattern yet

There is another place this should be shared as well

 

[Turd Furgeson]

There is another place this should be shared as well

You don't want heavy carbon clearing itself. Too risky, especially on vintage saws where parts are hard to find.

Take it out manually and then run good mix.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

I wouldn’t use this in an assembled engine, but based of TF’s results I would use for parts that needed carbon deposits cleaned off.

Don’t know for a fact, but you might watch out for soaking a part partially submerged in EDTA solution. Some acid cleaners will make a line (etched) at the liquid/air interface.

The stihl solution which I emulated with my mix was designed for assembled engines. If used properly with care it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Lightning Performance]

The stihl solution which I emulated with my mix was designed for assembled engines. If used properly with care it shouldn't be an issue.

If you use water only it also cleans out hot running motors, slowly over time.

 

[John235]

I thought your supposed to just mix up some red armor and run the *s-word out of it.

 

[Egg Shooter]

You don't want heavy carbon clearing itself. Too risky, especially on vintage saws where parts are hard to find.

Take it out manually and then run good mix.

I was referring to the Dominator / Sunoco mix results moparmyway has experienced. But you are right on heavy carbon. I'd remove it manually or with the help of a solvent.

 

[huskyhank]

No saw expert by far but I’d take it apart to clean it before I launched any carbon crud into the engine. Water too. Ever see a dirt bike that took a swim? Turning them over upside down and pumping out the water gets them going again. Sometimes not for long.

Some of the firearms bore cleaners would work too. But EDTA is gonna be hard to beat for the money.