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Cylinder Design Discussion

afleetcommand

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Posted this video quite a while ago...always good to start an argument with! SO a rehash ....:)
Actually ends with a look inside an old 1978 KTM 420 cylinder....and the roots of a lot of cylinder modification aspirations....FLAME away!

 

jacob j.

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Great video Walt and very informative. One very small correction though- the hole you point out early in the video on the 2095 jug- that's the screw hole for the spring mount for the handlebar, not a compression release hole.
 

RIDE-RED 350r

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Another good video Walt :)

I particularly liked the part where you discussed the bike cylinder. Since I have begun learning about porting theory as pertaining to saws, I have sure come to appreciate the complexity of my 250r cylinders. And you are right, wide power curve was their goal. My 250r cylinders have extra "boost" ports on the intake side, piston with a window on the intake side, reed valves and so on. I suspect that reed valves are necessary in bike mills due to porting layout. I'll bet your average bike cylinder has drastically different timing numbers that require reed valves to maintain case compression and prevent blowback through the carb. It's cool to begin understanding these things. I would also as that a wide power curve was not the only benefit of two-stroke porting tech before it came to an end. The power made per cc on a bike is amazing! Take the latest Honda CR125, they claimed over 35hp in stock configuration. That IS impressive! What's the HP per cc of displacement on any saw? Not anywhere near that. But it should be noted that with bikes, you have the ability to run tuned expansion chamber pipes, large carbs, reed valves, digital variable ignition, etc. All of those things along with that sophisticated porting layout equals a 125cc engine that makes over 35hp and spools to 10k rpm.. Hang on!
 

afleetcommand

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Great video Walt and very informative. One very small correction though- the hole you point out early in the video on the 2095 jug- that's the screw hole for the spring mount for the handlebar, not a compression release hole.

How about this: 2094 & 2095 (Right)
Jred2095-4.jpg
 

TreeLife

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I have ridden them! What I said of course meant no disrespect towards 4 stroke rides or riders, I think it's all really personal preference. It's been a long time since I've owned my own dirt machine but I get to ride others haha. I have been gawking at KTM sx150's and Yamaha Banshee's...my girlfriend is unimpressed with me hahaha
 

jmssaws

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I have ridden them! What I said of course meant no disrespect towards 4 stroke rides or riders, I think it's all really personal preference. It's been a long time since I've owned my own dirt machine but I get to ride others haha. I have been gawking at KTM sx150's and Yamaha Banshee's...my girlfriend is unimpressed with me hahaha
Ive built and ported many Honda 250's and 125's and owned several,nothing like a 2 stroke that comes on hard but the new crf450 is a amazing running 4 stroke that's light and incredibly powerful.
My old ported 96 cr250 would have a hard time running with a stock one.
 

jmssaws

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Another good video Walt :)

I particularly liked the part where you discussed the bike cylinder. Since I have begun learning about porting theory as pertaining to saws, I have sure come to appreciate the complexity of my 250r cylinders. And you are right, wide power curve was their goal. My 250r cylinders have extra "boost" ports on the intake side, piston with a window on the intake side, reed valves and so on. I suspect that reed valves are necessary in bike mills due to porting layout. I'll bet your average bike cylinder has drastically different timing numbers that require reed valves to maintain case compression and prevent blowback through the carb. It's cool to begin understanding these things. I would also as that a wide power curve was not the only benefit of two-stroke porting tech before it came to an end. The power made per cc on a bike is amazing! Take the latest Honda CR125, they claimed over 35hp in stock configuration. That IS impressive! What's the HP per cc of displacement on any saw? Not anywhere near that. But it should be noted that with bikes, you have the ability to run tuned expansion chamber pipes, large carbs, reed valves, digital variable ignition, etc. All of those things along with that sophisticated porting layout equals a 125cc engine that makes over 35hp and spools to 10k rpm.. Hang on!

The length of the stroke is the main reason for the enormous power difference.
 

TreeLife

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There is no doubt the modern 4 stroke bikes are the cream of the crop, fuel injection, lots of weight reduction, good factory suspension, reliable, liquid cooled.
 
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Simondo

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Posted this video quite a while ago...always good to start an argument with! SO a rehash ....:)
Actually ends with a look inside an old 1978 KTM 420 cylinder....and the roots of a lot of cylinder modification aspirations....FLAME away!

Wonder how much the cylinder design will get changed when we " Finally" get fuel injection in saws ....not just in stone saws.
 
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