Converting 50:1 to 40:1

[Brewz]

Every time I go into my local Stihl shop (which is not often these days) I hear the officious little prick that works there (who recoils in horror if you ask him to touch a dirty part) tell people to mix stihl oil at 50:1 with premium 98 fuel

I recon his wife would mow the lawn and he has never used a saw

Its not a war, its a misunderstanding and wide spread confusion fueled by misinformation from manufactures quoting what the EPA makes them print on their oil bottles, and people who actually know what is needed.

And people will always ask and I will always be happy to steer them in the right direction, as we all should be.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Things change and people generally don't like change... I still remember, as mechanics, we swore by 3000 mile oil changes. People were resistant to 10k+ changes. Technology improves... sure part of it might be the EPA. 40 or 50:1 your splitting hairs. There's probably that much variation depending on how accurately you mix (I'd venture to say most aren't). I'm willing to bet a lean tune, air leak, dull chain, or dirt ingestion will kill a saw WAY before any wear due to a lack of oil.

Unless your a pro or running a mill, how much use does your saw really see, be real? As a pro, I'd bet your saw probably gets crushed by something first too

 

[rogue60]

Things change and people generally don't like change... I still remember, as mechanics, we swore by 3000 mile oil changes. People were resistant to 10k+ changes. Technology improves... sure part of it might be the EPA. 40 or 50:1 your splitting hairs. There's probably that much variation depending on how accurately you mix (I'd venture to say most aren't). I'm willing to bet a lean tune, air leak, dull chain, or dirt ingestion will kill a saw WAY before any wear due to a lack of oil.

Unless your a pro or running a mill, how much use does your saw really see, be real? As a pro, I'd bet your saw probably gets crushed by something first too

Technology improves yes I'd have to agree on that take the flash bike oils many run in there saws straight unburnt oil running out of mufflers probably could run them at 60:1 or less in a no load chainsaw 40-50:1 is probably the same as running 15:1 with some of that stuff ..
And the metals and crap used in saw engines are better for sure you can't take oil out with out doing that but what about the cheap Chinese rebuild kits that 99% of flipped saws get rebuilt with are they any better than what was on offer in the 70's? I bet they don't like 50:1 for that long with a cheap oil..One thing that's odd is the guys that say you need to break in a new saw with crazy high rpm hard flat to the floor cutting to load the saw to the max with no let up tank after tank!? then they wonder why there is transfer going on but its ok blame the oil lol break in = heat. Personally I think running them as you would WOT under load in normal cutting conditions is fine I don't get the try and blow them up is good break in thing?..

 

[jakethesnake]

I always ran any rebuild good and hard big diesels need it So if it's good for one application I just carry it on to the next Maybe I'm wrong? I don't know I tune a saw rich and find somthing that actually makes the saw work for a tank or two. What's your method. Just a question not trying to come off wrong here

Technology improves yes I'd have to agree on that take the flash bike oils many run in there saws straight unburnt oil running out of mufflers probably could run them at 60:1 or less in a no load chainsaw 40-50:1 is probably the same as running 15:1 with some of that stuff ..
And the metals and crap used in saw engines are better for sure you can't take oil out with out doing that but what about the cheap Chinese rebuild kits that 99% of flipped saws get rebuilt with are they any better than what was on offer in the 70's? I bet they don't like 50:1 for that long with a cheap oil..One thing that's odd is the guys that say you need to break in a new saw with crazy high rpm hard flat to the floor cutting to load the saw to the max with no let up tank after tank!? then they wonder why there is transfer going on but its ok blame the oil lol break in = heat. Personally I think running them as you would WOT under load in normal cutting conditions is fine I don't get the try and blow them up is good break in thing?..

 

[rogue60]

I always ran any rebuild good and hard big diesels need it So if it's good for one application I just carry it on to the next Maybe I'm wrong? I don't know I tune a saw rich and find somthing that actually makes the saw work for a tank or two. What's your method. Just a question not trying to come off wrong here

As I said up there WOT under load in normal cutting conditions use it like you would an old saw just cut under load WOT nothing special about it.. Break in = heat cut after cut flat out with no let up for tank after tank doesn't give the saw a chance to cool and its producing more heat in this time frame the rings are honing the bore for a true seal the risk after oil film breakdown transferring overheating melting piston up and down the bore taking about a chainsaw here.

 

[jakethesnake]

As I said up there WOT under load in normal cutting conditions use it like you would an old saw just cut under load WOT nothing special about it.. Break in = heat cut after cut flat out with no let up for tank after tank doesn't give the saw a chance to cool and its producing more heat in this time frame the rings are honing the bore for a true seal the risk after oil film breakdown transferring overheating melting piston up and down the bore taking about a chainsaw here.

Wasn't saying you were wrong all I was saying is I really like to put any new engine under a load Big wood tuned rich is what I was taught when I was young I too am talking about a saw No disrespect intended on my end

 

[rogue60]

Wasn't saying you were wrong all I was saying is I really like to put any new engine under a load Big wood tuned rich is what I was taught when I was young I too am talking about a saw No disrespect intended on my end

Same Jake is all good no disrespect my end as well sorry if i came off as so not my intentions..
Yeah same but I don't tune rich anymore not for years oils are that good now days is no real need I find, in some cases to much oil or to good an oil can inhibit break in in a saw they dont have the load behind the rings like say a 250cc mx bike as such I would think.

 

[Al Smith]

Now that deal on the motor oil ,it used to 1000 miles or every 30 days back in the 60's .It's every 5000 now ,semi synthetic .Even at 5000 it doesn't look that bad,better filters tighter engine parts fits etc .

 

[Brewz]

I was going through the process of trying all the synthetic oils at $30+ a litre to find what worked for me
None did

Rogue put me onto the Castrol 2T Active mineral oil with photos of a near pristine clean 066 piston with 1000+ hours on it that had run at 25:1 all it's life.

I tried it and now won't use anything else.

I started at 40:1 and have dropped it to 32:1 and it goes great.

40:1 works fine but I am using ported big saws leaned out so have gone to 32:1 just to make sure there in enough oil in there

What I like best is there is none of the nasty fumes that come from synthetic oil, low smoke and a dry muffler

 

[CR888]

I think synthetics have been so heavily marketed to justify their big production costs compared to mineral oils lower costs. Marketing/advertising makes minds believe paying 5X the price for a product is good for them. Percepition becomes reality to the point most folks 'insist' on running full synthetics despite having no personal hands on experience proving their worth. Synthetics initially were designed for the high temperatures in aircraft turbine engines that would break down mineral oils. As turbine tech grew, so did the power and heat, synthetics provided a solution. Run what you want in 'your' saw but at least before you decide on a product costing 5X the price do as Brews did and see if their are any benefits in doing so. Rant finished.

 

[mdavlee]

I'm going to try a mineral oil if I can find a decent one besides orange bottle stihl.

 

[Brewz]

Try this stuff

http://www.castrol.com/en_us/united...ke-engine-oil/2t-2-stroke-motorcycle-oil.html

Your average saw doesn't seem to be able to take advantage of fully synthetic oils and in my experience with them, they smoke and stink.
The mineral oil burns off properly with little smoke and carbon, which means less abrasive crap.

I am thinking that the syntetic oils that have higher film strength etc actually cause problems longer term as they don't burn properly in the lower heat/compression environment of a saw compared to a motor bike and this makes smoke and carbon.
Carbon is abrasive.

The mineral oil lubes well enough as long as you use enough for your saw and application.

Just my opinion and thoughts/findings

 

[KenJax Tree]

Just checked and that oil is $5.49 a quart at O'Reilley's. $4 cheaper than i get Saber for......im in.

 

[Brewz]

Full synthetic oils are $30 - $40 here for 1 liter (a quart)

The Castrol mineral is $14 which does me.

 

[Brewz]

All I can say is, just give it a go.
It works

 

[Brewz]

Its funny how they market the oils differently in different countries

To be clear, this is the oil we get here in Australia

http://www.castrol.com/en_au/austra...d-scooters/engine-oils/activ-brand/activ.html

I am not sure if the oil I linked off the USA castrol website is the same but was the closest thing I could find.

There is a snow mobile oil they list in the states called Activo 2T x-tra but i cant find any specs to see if its the same.

http://www.castrol.com/en_us/united-states/motorcycle-oil/2-stroke-engine-oil.html

maybe someone over in the USA can check the specs on the bottles in a store?

 

[7sleeper]

I mainly use full synthetic and never had any problems with excess carbon build up. My full synthetic doesn't cost 5x either. I get a simple generic brand and it is at max 2x the price of full synthetic.
What I look for in generic full synthetic is the following:
full synthetic
for air cooled engines
Jaso FC/FD, Iso-l-edg, API TC

If all criteria is full filled I don't give a chit what name is on the bottle. 1:50 all the way.

If you get carbon build up that is, in my limited experience, much more a problem of bad carb settings than anything else.

7

 

[Nitroman]

My one bit of advice here will be to not tune the saw using recommendations of 1/4 turn or 1/2 turn more or less just cause you change oil ratio.
Learn to listen to the saw and tune it each time you use it.

Get your saw up to full cutting temp first and always tune with a full tank of fuel.
full revs, wind the H screw in and you will hear the revs raise and at a point it will go from a rough blubbering sound to a clean scream.
The clean sound is lean. You dont want that.
As soon as you hear this, start opening the H screw again to let in more fuel till you hear it go rough again. As soon as it starts to burble its 4 stroking and you are back into the safer range.

Every saw tunes different, sounds different and needs to be tuned differently depending on the fuel, oil type, oil ratio, altitude, etc etc.

Basically, learn to tune and don't rely on hoping its right because assumption is the mother of all evil.

"Burble"...that is a good word. See it often on snowmachine forums, not often here, but that is exactly correct.

People in this region are poor; no jobs. They'll use Castrol green jug 2-stroke for everything. Phew! But it keeps the motors running. I love the smell of castor anytime (www.Blendzall.com), but it is too cold here. Klotz Techniplate smells like Dial soap. Best smell so far is Polaris VES. Haven't used it in a saw yet, maybe I'll drain the 137 and try it in that.

Good advice on the tuning too. Sometimes it will be very cold in the morning, then warm up to almost +40* F (+5*C), so have to tune. It isn't a pain in the ass, just do it as a matter of course.

 

[CR888]

This stuff works. I buy a chit ton of it.

 

[flying pig]

I run amsoil dominator at 32:1 in all my two strokes. When I tear down for rebuild it's laying all over in the engine and none of my engines smoke. My 2100s run perfectly clean on this. It's nice oil. Also my 2 strokes all get premium