Better generators options for me?

[Sid Post]

I know Honda generators have near-legend status for many people in many applications but, boy are they expensive. I am not interested in the no-name cheap big box store options either. I have a Generac GP3600 which works well but, lacks 240V service and a clean power inverter. Great for general chores but, not really powerful enough for some applications and won't run my welder which is a small unit but requires 240V service.

For general use with electronics, think laptops, cellphones, radios, etc. along with other simple things like a coffee maker or little fridge at the lake, does anyone have thoughts or comments on the portability and flexibility in pseudo-recreational use of something like the Generac iQ3500 or GP3500i versus anything else in the ~$1,000 range? Sure, I would love to have the Honda equivalent but, >$3K ain't going to happen!

For more Agricultural and Ranching focused usage, how does something like the DuroMax XP12000HX compare to similar options from Generac or other well-respected brands? I should note this unit specifically is available for a touch over $1K delivered to me with a $200 gift card. I have limited experience with this brand but, it seemed to work fine when I ran one. With a sustained ~9.5Kw, it should drive my portable welder, water wells, and other big loads well. My goal here is to keep normal loads at 50% or less of the sustained rating so the fuel burn is not too bad and run times are really long. At ~200 lbs, I realize this is a tractor-loader or trailer move option only! I'm not saying I would not drag it a few feet but, the lightweight Generac GP3600 is a pain to drag around and I can lift it by myself into a pickup bed if I need to.

In summary, I am thinking about the best value (not the cheapest) in the $1,000 each range at the moment in TWO GENERATORS. I can spend more if there is a real reason and I will get the value out of the more expensive option. One needs to be practical for a car trunk, SUV, or use around the house where clean 120V power is needed to run lighter loads, everything from aquariums to computer electronics to light handyman tools, and the other needs to be more robust to run remote welders, water wells, high power lights, and similar things in a cow pasture from a tractor or trailer.

TIA,
Sid

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Look for used 7000-8000 watt Honda generators. I live off-grid so have experience with generators. I've seen more electronics fried by line power up here in Alaska, than anything else. You don't need expensive pure seine wave for computers and what not.

I mostly run the Honda to charge batteries: Dewalt 4 place fast charger for the big 60volt Batts(my lighting), and a couple of big agm batteries connected to an 30 amp invertor/charger. 75% load for about 90 minutes. The invertor/agm batt-bank power goes to computer, off-grid motem, charging phones, etc. My invertor is not pure sein wave. So 90 minute run-time every 4-5 days. So my electric bill is 5 gallons of gas per month. 7-8 gallons of gas in the winter. Exuahst is ran into a 55-gallon drum insulated with hi-temp glass packing. Silences the noise purdy well. Generator sits in a 6x6 box, to further silence and keep it warm in winter.

I usually get 4-5 years out of a used Honda. Nothing else lasts that long.


Honda only gets Intermittent daily use for things like a welder, warming a block heater for a car in winter, or to fire up the air compressor.

 

[Duce]

Honda and Yamaha are not cheap, but last. My 6600 is over 20 years old and has powered our home many times through power outages. Couple lasted over 4 days and it ran non-stop supplying 240volts. Oil changes, drain carb after every use is only maintenance it has had.

 

[Kiwioilboiler]

Following with interest. After Cyclone Gabrielle crippled NZs infrastructure I vowed to acquire something of this nature.

 

[karrl]

We have a 2200 predator for our farm market that gets run for 6 hours a week and has been good for 3 years now. I’d recommend one if you’re looking for something in that size.

I got a smoking deal on a lightly used 7.5 kw generac generator last year. You could probably find a 7-10kw lightly used for 500 hundred or less if you’re patient. If you look now you should find some good deals, once hurricane season sets in you’ll have more competition.

 

[redneckhillbilly]

one thing about new hondas, and possibly others is the stupid ass Co-minder sensor ass BS, I bought a brand new 2200I and the stupid sensor battery or some crap needed replaced at 250 hours, It was under warranty but still took 5 weeks to get it done, and just today it acted up again so I took ot apart and removed the sensor and battery for it, and it kinda seems like it runs better than it ever has now.

 

[RCBS]

They no longer make them, but Subaru uses same Gen Set as Honda does. Fujikawa, I think? The newer stuff seems to have a bunch of frilly stuff on them that ends up causing issues. You need 3 things, engine, gen set, voltage regulator. The rest is all fluff. A maintained Honda generator will run until the sleeve is chromed, typically. Some fuel solenoid failures. Have replaced brushes in them. AVR will go every once in a while, usually from too many shock loads. Good fuel and 50 hour oil changes will net exceptional service life. I prefer the 'noisy' contractor units over the new stuff. The 'clean' power units all have a big computer/amplifier looking thing that is quite expensive and can 'go bad'. Sill amazed how they get 3000+ watts and 20+ amps out of essentially a big Stator. Will always prefer standard gen set as there is not much to crap out with them.

 

[blades]

For electronics you need the inverter type units. They give you a relatively clean sine wave which is important. A sine wave that looks like a picture of the rocky mounts in the horizon ( most grid power connections look like this) causes intense over heating in electronic components, this is the primary cause of failure. ( the rudamentary power supplies in consumer equipment suck)

 

[Sid Post]

one thing about new hondas, and possibly others is the stupid ass Co-minder sensor ass BS, I bought a brand new 2200I and the stupid sensor battery or some crap needed replaced at 250 hours, It was under warranty but still took 5 weeks to get it done, and just today it acted up again so I took ot apart and removed the sensor and battery for it, and it kinda seems like it runs better than it ever has now.

I have mixed feelings on CO-minders as well but, there are a lot of stupid people out there that are forcing these on everything due to litigation concerns and various regulations at the local and federal levels.

 

[Sid Post]

They no longer make them, but Subaru uses same Gen Set as Honda does. Fujikawa, I think? The newer stuff seems to have a bunch of frilly stuff on them that ends up causing issues. You need 3 things, engine, gen set, voltage regulator. The rest is all fluff. A maintained Honda generator will run until the sleeve is chromed, typically. Some fuel solenoid failures. Have replaced brushes in them. AVR will go every once in a while, usually from too many shock loads. Good fuel and 50 hour oil changes will net exceptional service life. I prefer the 'noisy' contractor units over the new stuff. The 'clean' power units all have a big computer/amplifier looking thing that is quite expensive and can 'go bad'. Sill amazed how they get 3000+ watts and 20+ amps out of essentially a big Stator. Will always prefer standard gen set as there is not much to crap out with them.

You need the right tool for the job. The contractor gensets are really hard on computers used in a lot of things so, I would keep that in mind. For AC units, water well pumps, freezers, and similar things, probably not a concern for the most part.

 

[blades]

As reported - you can't fix stupid, in regards to co monitors- which are a lot like the low oil sensors. As most appliances now days have electronics in them an inverter type is the best choice for that use. for equipment not coupled to electronic control the others are fine ,well pump, septic lift pump. Inverter types are better for led lighting as well.

 

[Sid Post]

For electronics you need the inverter type units. They give you a relatively clean sine wave which is important. A sine wave that looks like a picture of the rocky mounts in the horizon ( most grid power connections look like this) causes intense over heating in electronic components, this is the primary cause of failure. ( the rudamentary power supplies in consumer equipment suck)

Absolutely! I am looking at the newer Generac iQ3500 for reduced noise applications (think a window AC unit in a bedroom) and for keeping laptops and cell phones topped up. A bit spendy at a $1,000 street price but, over 2/3rds less than a similar Honda unit and without all extraneous stuff like Bluetooth connectivity as well. It seems to use the same 212cc motor in my current generator which has so far proven to be a solid choice within its limits and pricepoint.

I could also see taking it with me to my Overlanding camping events and Antique tractor show campouts where noise from gensets can be problematic. These are typically dry campgrounds so, genset noise is even less acceptable than it is at a National Park campground.

 

[RCBS]

LOL

 

[redneckhillbilly]

I do agree that the cominder concept is a well intentioned concept, being on the other side of it when it fails or needs maintenance abruptly it renders the genset useless, I use mine mainly in the winter to power a propane heater when on service calls, I do mobile equipment repair and without a good source of heat when its below zero I am dead in the water.

 

[Seachaser]

For electronics you need the inverter type units. They give you a relatively clean sine wave which is important. A sine wave that looks like a picture of the rocky mounts in the horizon ( most grid power connections look like this) causes intense over heating in electronic components, this is the primary cause of failure. ( the rudamentary power supplies in consumer equipment suck)

You can find some heckuva deals with Amazon on Champion inverters. Hook them in parallel. They fluctuate in price so stay alert. Prime week starts sometime in July.

 

[r7000]

There's some incorrect info here.

The "standard" type generators, the ones at home depot or lowes or harbor freight... they produce pure sine wave.
Their setup is for the engine to run at 3600 rpm to spin the alternator at 3600 rpms (direct couple) and as such the armature rotating produces a pure sine wave, that's it. Where people mix it up is the engine does not run at 3600.000 rpms to produce a constant 60.0 hz that you would expect. It's a 2-pole alternator (i.e. generator) so the formula f = rpm * pole / 120 is how you get frequency. And it's the AC frequency that will vary, as engine rpm varies, which gives unclean power.

put a dmm on freq setting and check grid power, its a vary stable frequency. Do that on a standard generator and you'll see significant frequency variation as the load changes causing the [single cyl] engine rpm to vary.

It is the newer more expensive inverter type generators that do not produce pure sine wave from the get go, because they can run at any rpm to match the load power thus saving fuel and emissions, and convert DC power to AC and it is a saw-tooth sine wave if you look close enough

truth is most things do not need pure sine wave. It's the unstable frequency that will throw off electronic devices. And most electronics that have a "power supply" within them.. that psu (like in your computer/laptop) converts 120/240v ac to DC so the sine wave and the frequency is mostly not an issue and blown out of proportion.

the inverter generators, most will not say pure sine wave. but some will market theirs as pure sine wave... no surprise... just change the definition of pure sine wave to sell the technology (like how the definition of the word vaccine did a couple years ago) and don't look close enough at the actual sine wave and see the saw tooth. no different than analog to digital conversion... higher sampling rate just reduces the noticeable saw tooth on the sine wave but it is always there. Pure sine wave is the mechanical action of an accurate circle rotating, which is what happens in a standard type generator or any big generator supplying the grid.

the belt driven alternator in your car, first produces pure sine wave AC at fluctuating voltages and frequencies based on engine rpm; it's the rectifier circuit and voltage regulator (now an Integrated Circuit or itself it's own computer) that then makes the stable output of 12-14VDC that you're used to but there will be a saw tooth pattern on that ~12vdc line if you look close enough, it'll just be very small and insignificant to affect anything but it will not be a pure straight line.

run your ported chainsaw with a no-resistor spark plug near your "pure sine wave expensive inverter generator" , you've just made that sine wave output on your unshielded extension worse than the cheapest chinese generator sold at harbor freight amazon or ebay would produce. the technical term for all this really is harmonic distortion, or THD. not because of "pure sine wave".

 

[r7000]

remember the class action (maybe) on air compressors ~20 years ago, where they kept marketing them year after year with increasing horsepower numbers? Problem was (as i remember it) they ran on 120VAC, and at 15a the max power is 1800 watts (2400 watts on 20A) yet the horsepower ratings were 4+. well, 1 horsepower = 746 watts. It was the FTC I think that cracked down on it.

Similar with hp numbers on lawn mowers, and how it's now a tq number because they exaggerated the hp number for marketing. It's all a misrepresentation of technical details.

 

[Northern_clear]

My grandparents retired off grid on Wisconsin/Michigan border in 1999. When they sold their Kohler to the neighbor it had 21,000 hours on it and he still powers his cabin with it. Currently run a generac 10kw with about 7,000 hours on it.