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261 M-Tronic - What makes it tick.....

G

Greenerpastures

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If you don't mind, I would like to keep this thread as an information thread on what we are finding and the possible things we can do with it.

While I understand your thoughts and concerns, I would feel better if you were to start another thread. I / we are doing our best to help those that want information on how This Is Working and what we are finding along with the possibility's it can be used for.

Thank you.
No sooner said than done, hope it works out, am always open
the possability we will be stuck with this new tech, and can only
be happy that people like you are trying to solve the new challenges
it brings.
I meant no disrespect or to get so far off track regarding
what the thread set out to acheive.

Regards, john
 
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JMoney

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I really like my MMWS 261 C, just got done running another 3 tanks through it. Was the only saw I fired up today, it is very impressive. IMO, so much easier to have the M Tron version. Just think, you don't have to pull it again after it pops, it just runs!
I usually just set my saws pretty fat, probably would run a decent bit leaner with the MT for me, which is tempting.

How will you use one without a P&C? The rod will be flipping around beating up the case.
Can always get a junk cylinder to take the beating

True but you have to consider the facts.
To start with would be the timing aspect.
Being able to adjust the saw (depending on the chain mounted) for RPM or torque....
In some instances you might want a lot of RPM.
In others torque might be advisable to get thru that large hardwood... Again, that would be for the tuner / owner / operator to decide.
I think it would be cool if this could be automated. If the ECU detects RPM dropping in the cut it could be able to adjust for increased torque.
 

MustangMike

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I think it would be cool if this could be automated. If the ECU detects RPM dropping in the cut it could be able to adjust for increased torque.

I believe the literature for M Tron claims that it does stuff like that.
 

nohoff

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There is no way to change the port timings like modern car engines do it with variable camshafts.
How can you change between an RPM or Torque setting by adjusting ignition timing?
Optimization on the ignition timing map gives you gain in torque overall.
More torque overall = more HP
 

retro

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There is no way to change the port timings like modern car engines do it with variable camshafts.
How can you change between an RPM or Torque setting by adjusting ignition timing?
Optimization on the ignition timing map gives you gain in torque overall.
More torque overall = more HP

Two-stroke snowmobile motors have had power valves (variable exhaust port timing) incorporated into them for almost two decades now, so variable port timing on saw motors is likely someday.

The goals of the major saw manufacturers are not to provide the most power to weight/displacement chain saw by taking advantage of electronic engine control technology. If it were, the average 50cc reciprocating chain saw motor would be producing 5.5+ ft. lbs peak torque & 7+ peak HP out of the box.

Their goals (and those of the EPA) are not to provide environmentally friendly products either. If that were true all of humanity would have been working on improving on the efficiency of the ICE engine these past dozen decades, not limiting and controlling ICE efficiency through "no-progress-permitted" regulations.

Electronic engine controls are useful only to further control and enslave & fleece YOU/I. Thats my .02 cents...
 

breese

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Optimization on the ignition timing map gives you gain in torque overall.
More torque overall = more HP
Exactly
Extreme RPM does not equal HP or Torque.
Finding the Power Band and maintaining it under load... Now that will result in a better performing saw / machine.

Having the ability to Tune the electronics (outside of just a Key Mod), would allow the saw to be tuned within the given power band and as an end bonus keep the saw from incurring extreme RPM damage.

The baseline settings in a stock saw does exactly this....
What we are looking into is the availability to set a new set of Baselines for a Ported / Modified saw.
 

Mastermind

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Exactly
Extreme RPM does not equal HP or Torque.
Finding the Power Band and maintaining it under load... Now that will result in a better performing saw / machine.

Having the ability to Tune the electronics (outside of just a Key Mod), would allow the saw to be tuned within the given power band and as an end bonus keep the saw from incurring extreme RPM damage.

The baseline settings in a stock saw does exactly this....
What we are looking into is the availability to set a new set of Baselines for a Ported / Modified saw.

I freakin love this line.......
 

RI Chevy

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You got that right sir!

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 

nohoff

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People tend to think you do some magic chiptuning and you get +50% HP
What should the M-Tronic do?
Get a bucket full of gas and dump in in the Cylinder hoping that it will gain you some more power?
Thats not how this engines work. first we need better filling of the cylinder and then add the right amount of fuel into it.
M-Tronic cant change port timings and things like variable porttiming are way to big and heavy for worksaws.
Its like getting a new camshaft for a old 4-stroke engine. Those get you more torque in upper RPMs and less torque in lower RPMs making this engines useless for everyday usage.
Thats why every porter has his own recipe for porting. Torque or HP what dou you want? Sometimes more torque in lower RPMs results in less HPs but feels like its a strong saw cause you can stand on this saw.
High RPM/HP saws need a little bit more attention by the user for running the engine in the power band.
 
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breese

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People tend to think you do some magic chiptuning and you get +50% HP
I cannot and will not speak to what others think....

What should the M-Tronic do?
In stock form with a stock saw, exactly what it was designed to do.
For those in the field with the abilities to properly modify a saw for better performance without affecting reliability, there should be a way to change / modify (whatever term) the parameters to better match the new performance.

Will Stihl do this... I bet not.
Can we accomplish this, I guess we will see.
Never the less, I am not here to debate the differences between 2 stroke and 4 stoke motors, the items within one motor vers another. Just what Might Be available with the M-Tronic.
 

malk315

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Posting here as I just discovered this thread and now I'll get notifications for it. Very interesting!
I need to get caught up -- that will have to be later!

From seeing all of the traces going to the CPU in an earlier picture it looks like a DSP or microcontroller.
The TI Piccolo (spelling?) on our HES board for our linear motor products looks a lot like the size of the part that breese exposed.... although it could be anything!
Any heat sinking is done by the epoxy just like our linear motors do here at my day job. The epoxy is great for shock too -- and even keeping prying eyes as to how the thing works LOL.

I would love to intercept the sensors that this thing uses and feed them into a Beaglebone / Pi / Arduino / whatever and then write some code to run the saw however I see fit! Perhaps the hardware would initially be too big and would need to be powered by an external source, but hey... it would be fun to be able to control when to fire the spark and add advance or retard on the fly. Measure the power changes with the dyno...

Just need time... which I obviously haven't had :(

At least I get to hang out with you guys. That's what counts for me on this forum. If I can help somehow in this dissection exercise I'm in!

Cheers.
 

breese

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looks like a DSP or microcontroller
We know there is communication going across the power source for the carb solenoid.
At current the only way we see (or the quickest way) is to get the mdg1 diag cable but it can only be gotten for about $600 or $700.

I am working on locating the parts to build out a non-running 261 MT and driving it from an electric motor so as to get a scope on it.

I am also working on a new method of removing the Protection with a Dremel mounted as a drill press and removing layers of a thousands at a time while the coil is in a bed of water.
I have discovered that you can see components below the protection (when very thin) under water.

As for your Dyno, I love what you all are doing but if I can make a recommendation.
Add a thermocouple for temp and place if inside the exhaust chamber.

While a temp reading of the head is ok, one at the exhaust will allow you to tune the motor to temperature.
What a lot of people to do realize is that turning to exhaust temp will actually allow you to find the best / lean WOT setting just before the motor starts to Detonate.
 
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