Received Asian MS440 Big Bore Triplets Today

[AlfA01]

Interesting calculator that I saw @Tor R had posted in another thread. You could run your numbers and see what you come up with.

http://lambretta-images.com/archive/porttiming.php

 

[Tor R]

Interesting calculator that I saw @Tor R had posted in another thread. You could run your numbers and see what you come up with.

http://lambretta-images.com/archive/porttiming.php

@David Young is the guy who find those sweet programs.
I prefer them programs more then the timing wheel

 

[MustangMike]

Well, it runs and it oils, and has plenty of compression, but it would not idle, and the choke plate is sticking, so I still have some work to do.

Will post more frustrations later, more parts that drove me crazy because they were not right. I'm estimating this took 4-5 times normal to put together.

 

[MustangMike]

Well, the saw runs, idles, and cuts wood, so I should be elated, but this damn thing kicked my A$$ today!

Really wanted to finish it up so I could cut with it tomorrow. Had some house chores to do, and some work stuff, then I got to it. Was going OK till I got to the chain brake. I hate chain brakes anyway, one of the most frustrating things to do, but I thought I had it and I just could not get that chain brake to go on, looked like the linkage was lined up, etc, but it just would not go. Damn if they did not undersize the hole on the inside of the chain brake lever (the outside was correct). You know how much time I wasted trying to get that damn thing to go on, until I figured out the hole was too small???

So, I get the chain brake done, and I check out the carb. Lo pin is very stiff, but everything else seems fine, choke and throttle seem to work perfectly. Got the saw to pop + run, but then it would not idle. So I shut it down, make some adjustments, and it won't start!!! Tear it down, and the choke is sticking shut.

No time to mess with it, I pull the carb from kit #2 and check it out. Again, everything seems fine except the Lo screw is stiff. Put the new carb on, and the saw still won't start. Pull it down, and the choke on this one is also sticking shut!!! Grab an old dirty carb from on of my broken 046/460s. No idea if it is good or not. Put it on, it won't start. Check it out, the choke will not go on!!!

Play with it till I get the choke to go on, start the saw, adjust the carb, SHE IDLES, I was so happy, was worried I had a bad seal! Now I just have to play with it tomorrow morning and get the choke to work right every time! Oh, and then the decomp button looses it's cap (I'm making a new one, don't want the saw to eat it).

So, even with .030 squish compression is as much as I would want, the combustion chambers on these cylinders is tight, and the exhaust is a bit low. Only made two cuts with it, in 18" Ash, felt good, but I hope it improves with breakin and some tuning. I likely have it fat. But she runs clean, right from the start!

Pics: 1) Inside Chain Brake hole is too small, 2) Do hickey that came with the crank bushing is for the upper vib mount, 3) the Chain Brake hardware is a rubber bushing and thin metal tube, 4) All together and ready to cut wood, just got to put the inner dog on it.

 

[huskyboy]

Well, the saw runs, idles, and cuts wood, so I should be elated, but this damn thing kicked my A$$ today!

Really wanted to finish it up so I could cut with it tomorrow. Had some house chores to do, and some work stuff, then I got to it. Was going OK till I got to the chain brake. I hate chain brakes anyway, one of the most frustrating things to do, but I thought I had it and I just could not get that chain brake to go on, looked like the linkage was lined up, etc, but it just would not go. Damn if they did not undersize the hole on the inside of the chain brake lever (the outside was correct). You know how much time I wasted trying to get that damn thing to go on, until I figured out the hole was too small???

So, I get the chain brake done, and I check out the carb. Lo pin is very stiff, but everything else seems fine, choke and throttle seem to work perfectly. Got the saw to pop + run, but then it would not idle. So I shut it down, make some adjustments, and it won't start!!! Tear it down, and the choke is sticking shut.

No time to mess with it, I pull the carb from kit #2 and check it out. Again, everything seems fine except the Lo screw is stiff. Put the new carb on, and the saw still won't start. Pull it down, and the choke on this one is also sticking shut!!! Grab an old dirty carb from on of my broken 046/460s. No idea if it is good or not. Put it on, it won't start. Check it out, the choke will not go on!!!

Play with it till I get the choke to go on, start the saw, adjust the carb, SHE IDLES, I was so happy, was worried I had a bad seal! Now I just have to play with it tomorrow morning and get the choke to work right every time! Oh, and then the decomp button looses it's cap (I'm making a new one, don't want the saw to eat it).

So, even with .030 squish compression is as much as I would want, the combustion chambers on these cylinders is tight, and the exhaust is a bit low. Only made two cuts with it, in 18" Ash, felt good, but I hope it improves with breakin and some tuning. I likely have it fat. But she runs clean, right from the start!

Pics: 1) Inside Chain Brake hole is too small, 2) Do hickey that came with the crank bushing is for the upper vib mount, 3) the Chain Brake hardware is a rubber bushing and thin metal tube, 4) All together and ready to cut wood, just got to put the inner dog on it.

Good deal getting the saw running right today. Btw... I hate decomps, plugged all mine except the ported 395 because the compression is ridiculous. Might not be the right solution for everyone though. I heard the oem husky decomps take more to pop off and work well on modded stihls with high compression. They are pricey however.

 

[Tor R]

Well, the saw runs, idles, and cuts wood, so I should be elated, but this damn thing kicked my A$$ today!

Really wanted to finish it up so I could cut with it tomorrow. Had some house chores to do, and some work stuff, then I got to it. Was going OK till I got to the chain brake. I hate chain brakes anyway, one of the most frustrating things to do, but I thought I had it and I just could not get that chain brake to go on, looked like the linkage was lined up, etc, but it just would not go. Damn if they did not undersize the hole on the inside of the chain brake lever (the outside was correct). You know how much time I wasted trying to get that damn thing to go on, until I figured out the hole was too small???

So, I get the chain brake done, and I check out the carb. Lo pin is very stiff, but everything else seems fine, choke and throttle seem to work perfectly. Got the saw to pop + run, but then it would not idle. So I shut it down, make some adjustments, and it won't start!!! Tear it down, and the choke is sticking shut.

No time to mess with it, I pull the carb from kit #2 and check it out. Again, everything seems fine except the Lo screw is stiff. Put the new carb on, and the saw still won't start. Pull it down, and the choke on this one is also sticking shut!!! Grab an old dirty carb from on of my broken 046/460s. No idea if it is good or not. Put it on, it won't start. Check it out, the choke will not go on!!!

Play with it till I get the choke to go on, start the saw, adjust the carb, SHE IDLES, I was so happy, was worried I had a bad seal! Now I just have to play with it tomorrow morning and get the choke to work right every time! Oh, and then the decomp button looses it's cap (I'm making a new one, don't want the saw to eat it).

So, even with .030 squish compression is as much as I would want, the combustion chambers on these cylinders is tight, and the exhaust is a bit low. Only made two cuts with it, in 18" Ash, felt good, but I hope it improves with breakin and some tuning. I likely have it fat. But she runs clean, right from the start!

Pics: 1) Inside Chain Brake hole is too small, 2) Do hickey that came with the crank bushing is for the upper vib mount, 3) the Chain Brake hardware is a rubber bushing and thin metal tube, 4) All together and ready to cut wood, just got to put the inner dog on it.

seems you had lots of fun today Mike

 

[MustangMike]

Btw... I hate decomps, plugged all mine except the ported 395

When I'm balancing on a log on a woodpile at the end of the day, I'll even use the decomp on the 261 when warm … so sweet how a warm saw starts with one.

My only knock on my 044 is it does not have one, which is why sometimes I'll choose my 440 or MOFO 360, ore MMWS 362 … instead.

And I can pull that big bore 440 w/o the decomp just fine … the first 20 times. After that I used the decomp, and my arm is still telling me I had a hard time with that saw today!

 

[Terry Syd]

I heard the oem husky decomps take more to pop off and work well on modded stihls with high compression. They are pricey however.

After I put the pop-up piston in my 029/390 the saw kept triggering the de-comp too early. I ruined a couple of the plastic starter pawls and decided to fix the problem.

The stock size outlet on the Stihl de-comp was .6mm. I finally worked my way up to a 1.2mm size hole and it works fine now.

You may want to invest in a cheap 'micro drill' set (about $10 on Ebay) and work your way up until it works the way it should.

You can use the micro drills for other projects. They are a great addition to the tool chest.

 

[MustangMike]

I forgot to mention the problems with the 440 chain adjusters. Just like on some of the 660 kits, the large adjustment gear is oversized, and does not fit in the hole in the saw. I started hogging out the hole, but that was a PITA. I instead took a smaller adjuster gear (from an HL Supply set) and it seems to be working just fine (in conjunction with the other Farmtec hardware). There was no gap that needed to be shimmed on the axel like the 660s had, the axel was snug in the 440s. You could also grind down the gear, like I did on one of the 660s. I just chucked it in the cordless drill and ran it against a file till it fit. Worked.

Like I have previously stated, this build took about 4-5 times the normal build time do to the problem parts. I hope my detailing of the problems helps others find and deal with them faster than I did.

 

[MustangMike]

Also, my oiler worked on the first try, but it took a while for the oil to start pumping. My advice, do not put a B+C on till you run it and get oil to pump. You do not want to run a dry chain for that long, it may ruin it.

 

[MustangMike]

Put a little over a tank through it today, dropped a Maple, Cherry and a little Walnut. Ran good, but nothing extraordinary. I was happy that it idles well, so there are no leaks. The choke on the OEM carb still does not come on unless I pull the filter and manually put it on, then it stays till I take it off. Will have to fix that. I'm either going to mod the control lever, or replace it with an OEM.

This saw seems to vibrate more than an OEM.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to get choke on the AM carbs to not stick closed, I'm all ears! 2 of 2 so far did it.

Likely the intake port needs to be lowered some for better performance. I'm glad I did not leave it at 64, but likely something in the high 70s would work better than the current 72.5.

 

[MustangMike]

Summary of Problems: (to help those building one of these)

1) Cylinders need work, Big Bore Intake is at 64 w/o base gasket, and the 440 had .058 squish w/o base gasket.

2) The Flywheel key is .080 and the slot in the crank is .078.

3) The hole in the Brake Band for the pin is not large enough.

4) Oil worm gear driver would not clear the case, had to bend it in a hair.

5) Clutch was such a tight fit, had to install it w/o bearing, then put the bearing in after.

6) The hole on the inside of the chain brake handle is too small for the pin to fit. The hole on the outside is larger.

7) The chain adjuster gear is too big to fit in the case.

8) The carb choke plate sticks shut.

9) The decomp plug button came off.

Now for the good news … the flippy caps don't leak!!!!!

 

[brshephard]

Did your intake end up freeporting?

 

[MustangMike]

I did not check, but it must be very close (judging by how much the piston goes into the case and comparing to an unused P+C).

 

[treesmith]

I didn't see the belt sander in any of your tool pics.... I thought that was standard equipment for creamcycle improvement.

I've got a little voice saying to do a porting thread with a planer and some masonry bits, maybe set squish band with an ms150t and 1/4" chain, set timing advance with a lump hammer or a felling axe, that sort of thing...

Looked around though and there's a couple of "WTF" threads where a "builder" already did all that

 

[treesmith]

Good deal getting the saw running right today. Btw... I hate decomps, plugged all mine except the ported 395 because the compression is ridiculous. Might not be the right solution for everyone though. I heard the oem husky decomps take more to pop off and work well on modded stihls with high compression. They are pricey however.

Pretty sure the stihl one is $100 in Oz, it's nuts,

 

[treesmith]

Summary of Problems: (to help those building one of these)

1) Cylinders need work, Big Bore Intake is at 64 w/o base gasket, and the 440 had .058 squish w/o base gasket.

2) The Flywheel key is .080 and the slot in the crank is .078.

3) The hole in the Brake Band for the pin is not large enough.

4) Oil worm gear driver would not clear the case, had to bend it in a hair.

5) Clutch was such a tight fit, had to install it w/o bearing, then put the bearing in after.

6) The hole on the inside of the chain brake handle is too small for the pin to fit. The hole on the outside is larger.

7) The chain adjuster gear is too big to fit in the case.

8) The carb choke plate sticks shut.

9) The decomp plug button came off.

Now for the good news … the flippy caps don't leak!!!!!

Nice thread Mike, could you say roughly what cost and time were, all up?

 

[Canadian farm boy]

Put a little over a tank through it today, dropped a Maple, Cherry and a little Walnut. Ran good, but nothing extraordinary. I was happy that it idles well, so there are no leaks. The choke on the OEM carb still does not come on unless I pull the filter and manually put it on, then it stays till I take it off. Will have to fix that. I'm either going to mod the control lever, or replace it with an OEM.

This saw seems to vibrate more than an OEM.

If anyone has any suggestions on how to get choke on the AM carbs to not stick closed, I'm all ears! 2 of 2 so far did it.

Likely the intake port needs to be lowered some for better performance. I'm glad I did not leave it at 64, but likely something in the high 70s would work better than the current 72.5.

Mike, is it the choke shutter sticking closed in the carb or the master control shaft sticking in the choke position?

 

[MustangMike]

The choke shutter sticking inside the carb (with the AM carbs). Have not figured out why the control lever will not put the choke on with the OEM carb.

Everything works fine with both carbs till I install the plastic piece and flange (and can't see what is going on).

 

[huskyboy]

Maybe try a oem control lever? I bet it fixes problem your having.