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Hard to find German Dolmar 421s now?

Doug Fir

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Everything you said is exactly the same on a German Assembled PS-421 / EA4300.

I've never heard anyone complain about these issues on any of the sites. I did have one of our customers complain about the Choke/On/Off sticker.

So you're saying that they are all like this? That has not been my experience. I have seen new 421s where the "Made in Germany" labels are not lifting off in the middle. I have also seen 421s where the switch looks like this (German-made) 421:

3_41_20.jpg


That's what it should look like, but that switch position simply does not exist on my saw!
When my saw is set to the normal run position the switch is aligned with the bottom of the "Stop" label, and when it is choked it is at the top of the "On". There is nothing in between. To engage "Stop" the switch has to be pushed well below the label, down into the gap. The safety position is deep, deep into the gap, needing some implement to pry it out. Other 421 owners, feel free to chime in.

Doug
 

Adirondackstihl

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So you're saying that they are all like this? That has not been my experience. I have seen new 421s where the "Made in Germany" labels are not lifting off in the middle. I have also seen 421s where the switch looks like this (German-made) 421:

3_41_20.jpg


That's what it should look like, but that switch position simply does not exist on my saw!
When my saw is set to the normal run position the switch is aligned with the bottom of the "Stop" label, and when it is choked it is at the top of the "On". There is nothing in between. To engage "Stop" the switch has to be pushed well below the label, down into the gap. The safety position is deep, deep into the gap, needing some implement to pry it out. Other 421 owners, feel free to chime in.

Doug

421 owner here.
I can honestly say I have none of the issues you speak of.
The switch does get a little sticky in the stop position, but I've NEVER had to pry it out with a screwdriver.....not even close.
Let's see some pictures of the troublesome areas on your saw.
 

Doug Fir

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What's my point?
You're making false statements, that's my point.
You're trying to argue with a 30+ yr and running Dolmar dealer who knows more about his products than you ever will.
Welcome aboard.

What false statements have I made? I said that according to Makita the saw is "Made in China". Are you saying that statement is false? I acknowledged that many or most of the parts may be made in Germany. Is that false? I said that there are quality-control issues with the fit-and-finish of my saw. Are you saying that is false? What, exactly, are my "false statements"?

In the U.S. there are legal requirements regarding country-of-origin marking. Makita evidently believes that to comply with those requirements they need to label the saw as "Made in China". If some dealer wants to claim that these saws are made or manufactured in Germany than perhaps they should take this up with Makita. I was simply quoting Makita.

You may not like what I said, but none of it was false.

Doug
 

SOS Ridgerider

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I had to go check mine to see what it does.

Clearly a 2013 Made In Germany.
IMG_3369.JPG

Choke
IMG_3371.JPG

On
IMG_3372.JPG

Stop
IMG_3373.JPG

With that said, I've never really paid attention to where the lever sits compared to the sticker. I know that up is Choke, middle is On, and down is Stop. Just like the sticker says. I also never push the lever all the way down until it clicks to stop, I just depress it until the saw stops...
Works for me.
 

Doug Fir

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A couple 2009 PS-420's
...
e10152de1c4dd1dd056cb88c3937143e.jpg

...

Thanks for posting! That third photo looks very similar to my saw when it is in the "On" position. So it's not just the Chinese-made saws that have this sort of quality-control problem. I am referring to this as a quality-control problem because I don't think that it was designed that way. I am assuming that the previous photo I posted shows the intended design. So maybe this is a Dolmar problem rather than a Chinese Dolmar problem.
 

Adirondackstihl

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If some dealer wants to claim that these saws are made or manufactured in Germany than perhaps they should take this up with Makita. I was simply quoting Makita.

You may not like what I said, but none of it was false.

Doug
Read the 1st sentence of your first post and get back to me.
Quoting Makita?
Has nothing to do with whether or not I like you or what you said.
Enjoy your stay @ OPE
 

Doug Fir

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I had to go check mine to see what it does.

Clearly a 2013 Made In Germany.
View attachment 69398

Choke
View attachment 69399

On
View attachment 69400

Stop
View attachment 69401

With that said, I've never really paid attention to where the lever sits compared to the sticker. I know that up is Choke, middle is On, and down is Stop. Just like the sticker says. I also never push the lever all the way down until it clicks to stop, I just depress it until the saw stops...
Works for me.

Thanks! That looks a lot like my saw. It does seem like this is a common problem with the German-made saws as well. I wonder how they found one with a properly-aligned switch for the product photo that I posted earlier. Must have taken some effort. :)
 

Adirondackstihl

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I had to go check mine to see what it does.

Clearly a 2013 Made In Germany.
View attachment 69398

Choke
View attachment 69399

On
View attachment 69400

Stop
View attachment 69401

With that said, I've never really paid attention to where the lever sits compared to the sticker. I know that up is Choke, middle is On, and down is Stop. Just like the sticker says. I also never push the lever all the way down until it clicks to stop, I just depress it until the saw stops...
Works for me.

^this
 

Doug Fir

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Read the 1st sentence of your first post and get back to me.
Quoting Makita?
Has nothing to do with whether or not I like you or what you said.
Enjoy your stay @ OPE

My first sentence: "These saws are not manufactured in Germany." That's true, according to Makita, who claim that the saws are "Made in China". Are you saying that the saws are "manufactured" in Germany but "made" in China? If so, you are using an unconventional definition of the term "manufacture". I hate to be pedantic, but the formal definition of "manufacture" is "the making of goods or wares by manual labor or by machinery" (dictionary.com). So I don't see how a saw can be manufactured in Germany but made in China. Manufacturing is the process of making a good, and according to Makita the saw is made in China, not Germany.

Doug
 

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My first sentence: "These saws are not manufactured in Germany." That's true, according to Makita, who claim that the saws are "Made in China". Are you saying that the saws are "manufactured" in Germany but "made" in China? If so, you are using an unconventional definition of the term "manufacture". I hate to be pedantic, but the formal definition of "manufacture" is "the making of goods or wares by manual labor or by machinery" (dictionary.com). So I don't see how a saw can be manufactured in Germany but made in China. Manufacturing is the process of making a good, and according to Makita the saw is made in China, not Germany.

Doug

Sir.....I live next the Canadian border.
When I was younger, I worked for a customs broker. We legally took manufactured goods that were clearly labeled "made in china" and relabeled to say "made in Hong Kong"
It's a technicality for import/export.
Why? I don't know....don't care.
I'm not an import specialist, but if you need to know, several of my good friends work for US Customs & Customs Brokerages.

Read Scotts post again and don't always believe what a sticker tells ya!
 

Doug Fir

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Sir.....I live next the Canadian border.
When I was younger, I worked for a customs broker. We legally took manufactured goods that were clearly labeled "made in china" and relabeled to say "made in Hong Kong"
It's a technicality for import/export.
Why? I don't know....don't care.
I'm not an import specialist, but if you need to know, several of my good friends work for US Customs & Customs Brokerages.

Read Scotts post again and don't always believe what a sticker tells ya!

You're absolutely right that one shouldn't always believe what a sticker says. Of course one also shouldn't always believe the stories told by a company's sales reps, or by its salesmen.

I think that I understand the messaging problem. For many years the company, its sales reps and its dealers have trumpeted the fact that Dolmar/Makita saws were made in Germany. I watched a marketing video produced by Dolmar that brags about how each saw is followed along the assembly line by a skilled German craftsman who takes "ownership" for the quality of that particular saw. Germany has a global reputation for high quality manufacturing, based in part on its skilled workforce. People like the idea of a skilled German craftsman assembling their saw. More broadly, the "Made in Germany" label is a marketing asset.

A potential problem arises when assembly is offshored to China. First, the "Made in China" label is not an asset. It's a liability. There are two reasons for this. First, many Chinese products have a reputation for emphasizing low cost at the expense of quality. Second, there is a growing political backlash to the offshoring of more and more manufacturing jobs to China. People are getting fed up.

So what is a company to do? Try to have it both ways:

Yes, we used to claim that our skilled German assembly-line workers were an important part of our quality assurance, but now we claim that the country of assembly actually isn't important. Our Chinese workers are just as good. It's all highly automated anyway. It doesn't take much skill to slap a crank into a crankcase. (I had a dealer tell me this.)

Yes, the label on the saw says "Made in China", but it's actually manufactured in Germany. You should ignore the label. The key components are still made in Germany, and that's what matters. Forget the video we released earlier about the special qualities of our German assembly line. That's not what we want to emphasize now. It's ALL about the German components.

It's not easy to pivot in this way, but it will probably work. Moving assembly to China helps to control costs. LOW PRICES and mumblings about the German origins of the saws (ignore that label!) should help move a lot of saws. But you shouldn't be surprised when you get a bit of pushback. There are at least a few folks who are upset about the unrelenting shift of manufacturing jobs to China. Some of these people may grumble, but as we all know such concerns are unlikely to trump low prices when it comes to sales.

Doug
 

Doug Fir

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View attachment 69434

Sticker don't line up.
I'll be damned.
....

Well, the problem isn't with the damn sticker. The switch and outer case seem out of alignment. But yeah, if that and the poor-fitting top cover prove to be the only problems I'll be thrilled!!

Love the way the saw runs. Lots of grunt for such a small saw. Handles very well. Practically starts itself. :)

Doug
 

Gizzard

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With that said, I've never really paid attention to where the lever sits compared to the sticker. I know that up is Choke, middle is On, and down is Stop. Just like the sticker says. I also never push the lever all the way down until it clicks to stop, I just depress it until the saw stops...
Works for me.[/QUOTE]

Levers on 420 and 5100 I run work good, but same as you never look at the decal. I did look at a 421 on the shelf awhile back and thought the lever was messed up on it. Figured it had just been broke or something by someone and store did not know about it. I guess where never look at the decals, I did not think to look at the sticker as to where it was made. At that time I was under impression that all 421's were manufactured in Germany.

Interesting thread here with info on production limits, etc. and will probably look closer at additional Dolmar equipment purchases.
 

Dub11

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I feel like Iam lucky for not knowing how to ready and jist flipping leavers furiously until get the desired result ;)
 

Dolmar Junkie

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What's my point?
You're making false statements, that's my point.
You're trying to argue with a 30+ yr and running Dolmar dealer who knows more about his products than you ever will.
Welcome aboard.
I can't find that little popcorn eating emoji, oh well I'll just go make some in the microwave! Wait till I get back...
 

Dub11

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:icon_popcorn: this little guy he's two rows under the Google icon. At least on my phone
 
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