Carbide Chains

[Crzybowhntr]

no i bought a couple of the diamond burrs i dont use my grinder anymore

Burrs? Like you use in either a Dremel or a 12v chain grinder?

 

[dall]

ill have to look i have both a dremel and the granberg 12 v

 

[Philbert]

These were from a retired carbide chain (from fire service use): note the chipped or missing carbide inserts (indicated by the arrows) compared to the complete insert at the top of the photo. As the saying goes, 'that ain't gonna buff out!'



Philbert

 

[dall]

i tested the first chain in the worst conditions i could do wintertime in frozen wood with 3 inches of ice on the wood and 2 inches of frozen mud i cut about 8 loads with one chain before it started cutting crooked so i felt it worthy enough to buy a second and it may have a couple loads on it both are stihl duro 325 18 inch for my 026

 

[Wilhelm]

I finally tried my Carbide tipped Stihl loops, 3/8" & 3/8" LowProfile.

They cut very well "out-of-the-box", pleasently aggressive, nicely selffeeding.
Might have used them further if I hadn't immobilized myself.

Have pictures and videos, will upload them and post.

I think they are both Stihl Duro3.
This is the LowProfile one:
http://opeforum.com/threads/carbide-3-8-lp.4778/#post-260052

Solid Carbide tooling needs to be kept sharp.
My experience with solid Carbide drills tells me that a dull Carbide cutting edge will crumble and shatter, a really sharp one not so much.

I intend to keep my Carbide tipped loops sharp with diamond files.
Still have to purchase two, thus need to figure out which file diameters I'll need.

 

[Philbert]

(Rapco) Do you want to order a chamfer or chisel style cutter?

"The choice between chisel or chamfer chain comes down to the type of wood you are cutting and the conditions.

Chisel chains have a square cornered tooth that comes to a fine sharp point allowing the tooth to aggressively cut wood fibers easily. The advantage of the chisel cutter is that it provides fast and efficient cutting in softwoods. The disadvantage is that where the cutter comes to a fine sharp point, it’s a thinner piece of carbide material and it’s easier to chip or break if it hits a hard object like a rock or nail. The chisel cutter also dulls slightly quicker due too that thinner piece of material at that fine sharp point.

The chamfer cutters are essentially the same as the chisel cutters other than the cutters have had the sharp chisel point ground off to give better impact resistance and maintain a longer duration of sharpness compared to the chisel cutter. The chamfer cutter is the better choice for dirtier, hard and dry wood, stump work or applications where you could hit any hard objects."

Philbert

 

[Wilhelm]

Which Stihl chains do I have?
Are they both Duro3?
I'd like confirmation before hand so I can post the correct info once I write about them.


3/8" LowProfile/Picco, box has "3612 000 0052" scribbled on it, Google search came up wit "Stihl PiccoDuro3 / PD3":


3/8", box has "3682 000 0072" scribbled on it, Google search came up with "Stihl RapidDuro3 / RD3":


@Philbert , have You received that Christmas gift carbide tipped chain yet?
I'm interested to read what You think of it.

 

[Philbert]

Which Stihl chains do I have?

Looks like from the US website description that one is
PICCO Duro -3/8 low profile, 0.050 gauge: https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/specialty-saw-chains/pd3/, and one is
Rapid DURO 3 - .325, 0.058 gauge?: https://www.stihlusa.com/products/chain-saws/saw-chains/rd3/
Our STIHL US site does not show a 3/8 full pitch chain with carbide cutters (at least that I can find), but they may offer it over your way. No reason why they would not.

@Philbert , have You received that Christmas gift carbide tipped chain yet?
I'm interested to read what You think of it.

Photo of one chain a few posts above. The other received was a 'Bullet' chain (Post #4). Both heavy duty, heavily used, and designed for fire service use (i.e. cutting building materials instead of forestry / fire wood use). These will be used for training / show-and-tell use.

If I was to order a carbide chain to try for trees, logs, etc., I would start with one of the STIHL chains, or one of the Rapco chains designed for this use. Rapco's 'Selection Guide' (Post #3) notes that some styles are better for certain applications, and they have some insight into this. I would probably budget for a modest ($100) diamond wheel for sharpening as well - my dealer charges a minimum of $20 to sharpen carbide loops, so that could pay for itself fairly quickly.

I am sure that there are better quality diamond wheels available if one does this on a continuing basis. I would also expect to need replacement cutters to periodically replace chipped carbide inserts, as grinding these back is different that with conventional, steel cutters.

Here is what I am interested in hearing from You (and others)! Specifically:
- the cutting speed of carbide saw chains, compared to stock, conventional chains (e.g. not ground to someone's racing profile); and,
- how the cutters hold up to chipping; a concern with the hard, potentially brittle, cutting edges.

Comments appear to suggest that these factors are related: a finer edge cuts faster, but is more susceptible to chipping, since there is less metal to support it. Minor dulling of the edges can be addressed via maintenance sharpening, but large chips (see photos in earlier post) essentially require replacement of the cutter.

Philbert

 

[Wilhelm]

...
Here is what I am interested in hearing from You (and others)! Specifically:
- the cutting speed of carbide saw chains, compared to stock, conventional chains (e.g. not ground to someone's racing profile); and,
- how the cutters hold up to chipping; a concern with the hard, potentially brittle, cutting edges.
...
Philbert

Thank You for Your reply @Philbert !

I have given all these loops a try the 30.12.2016.


I made videos of bucking cuts which include me standing in the view field of the camera making a noodling test cut.
The bucking cuts are OK in the clips but the noodling not so much - doh.
I also took pictures of the chips and noodles.
Just have to upload it all to YouTube on a 0.52Mbps upload speed ...


My first impressions regarding the Stihl Rapid & Picco Duro3 are quite good, they make nice chips and actually self feed on their own factory new-out-of-the-box - this is based on three bucking cuts per loop only.

Solid-Carbide chipping is an indicator that a too hard variant has been chosen for the application, but also that the cutter may not have had sufficient "support" and thus broke off upon impact with an opposing material - this comment is made from experience with Solid-Carbide drills, but I am eager to find out how those chains will hold up and behave during everyday usage.

 

[Wilhelm]

Stihl Rapid Duro 3 , 3/8" .058" 72DL - very first cuts, factory out of the box performance.

Very good self feeding, good noodling.

 

[Wilhelm]

Stihl Picco Duro 3 , 3/8" LowProfile/Picco .050" 52DL

Factory new out of the box performance, very first cuts.

Self feeds really nicely.

 

[Philbert]

Love the title signs!

Both chains seem to cut well, if not super fast - did you compare them against conventional chain in the same wood?

How about the chips - how do they compare in size to conventional chain? They look small, especially the 'noodles', but hard to tell from a video.

Thanks for posting these.

Philbert

 

[Wilhelm]

Love the title signs!

Both chains seem to cut well, if not super fast - did you compare them against conventional chain in the same wood?

How about the chips - how do they compare in size to conventional chain? They look small, especially the 'noodles', but hard to tell from a video.

Thanks for posting these.

Philbert

Yes, tested ALL different brands and types of chain loops that I have on the 30.12.2016.
Further files uploading.

Same test log and saw for the 3/8" 72DL loops, and same log and saw for the 3/8" LowProfile 52DL loops.

These were all tested.


Off topic, poop my upload speed sucks...

EDIT/P.S.:
I agree and confirm, both Picco & Rapid Duro 3 self feed nicely and cut extremely well!

The Stihl Rapid Duro 3 cut better than the Dolmar 099 loop - factory new out of the box.

 

[Wilhelm]

Also made numerous pictures of chips and noodles!
I'll post them, just takes time on a slow up-speed and currently the videos are killing my network connection.

I'm almost done with the videos, pictures will follow.

 

[Wilhelm]

@Philbert clips are up, compare the Carbide loops to any other I tested.

The titles indicate what brand and type of chain is used.
PowerSharp is up as well.

My channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVWMhHkLWR9OtcNk45r9KtA

 

[Wilhelm]

3/8" LowProfile loops (including Stihl Picco Duro 3)

Chip comparison left to right, top to bottom:
- Dolmar 092
- PowerSharp
- Lux K09 (Oregon 91)
- Stihl Picco Duro 3 carbide tipped

Pictures are uncompressed 4MP which should allow for good zoom in quality.
Used camera was a Casio Exilim EX-Z40.



Unfortunately I didn't do this kind of comparison with the chips from the 3/8" loops.
But I have lots of individual pictures.

 

[Philbert]

It's a separate thread, but that PowerSharp makes some nice chips for 'homeowner chain'!

Philbert

 

[Wilhelm]

Off topic:
Do we have a PowerSharp thread?
I don't seem to be able to find one.

Link?

 

[Philbert]

Do we have a PowerSharp thread?

There were a couple on A.S. Maybe need to start one here?

Philbert

 

[Wilhelm]

Thought so.
I know that there are some on AS, but never encountered one here.

We will have to start a thread for PowerSharp, it is an intriguing design.

I am brainstorming how to get it on my big saws, might be fun . . . cut of the tail of a D009 and weld it to a A041 that got its tail cut off, smoothen the height difference . . . . .

1AM, brain starting to shut off . . . . .