Wedge Profiles and Names

[Philbert]

I have heard different definitions for 'single taper wedge' and 'double taper wedge', along with 'single lift' and 'double lift' felling wedges.

To add to the confusion, 'Double Taper' is the brand name for a line of plastic wedges, so ALL of their wedges are 'Double Taper wedges'!

Which wedges in the illustration below do you call 'single taper' and which do you call 'double taper'? I am assuming that wedge 'D' would be a 'triple taper' or 'double lift' for felling?


Philbert

 

[Skeans1]

I have heard different definitions for 'single taper wedge' and 'double taper wedge', along with 'single lift' and 'double lift' felling wedges.

To add to the confusion, 'Double Taper' is the brand name for a line of plastic wedges, so ALL of their wedges are 'Double Taper wedges'!

Which wedges in the illustration below do you call 'single taper' and which do you call 'double taper'? I am assuming that wedge 'D' would be a 'triple taper' or 'double lift' for felling?
View attachment 269342

Philbert

D is the only one there that’s a double taper all the rest in your drawing are singles.


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[deye223]

You don't have a single taper profile wedge in that picture hard to explain but if it was left sitting on a flat surface the head of the wedge would be 90 degrees with a single taper running down to the point that way when you stack one on top of the other the overall taper is not too fat at the head for want of a better term makes it easier to drive them in without bouncing out .

 

[deye223]

Please Forgive my crap artwork but this is what I was trying to explain


This is a double taper wedge has nothing to do with the tip or the extra lift at the rear of the wedge .

 

[Philbert]

You don't have a single taper profile wedge in that picture hard to explain but if it was left sitting on a flat surface the head of the wedge would be 90 degrees with a single taper running down to the point that way when you stack one on top of the other the overall taper is not too fat at the head for want of a better term makes it easier to drive them in without bouncing out .

In high school, we would call the one in your top sketch a 'right triangle' (90° corner), and the one in your bottom sketch an 'isosceles triangle' (2 of the sides are the same length).

But, as I understand your key point, if I stack 2 wedges 'A' or 2 wedges 'B' back-to-back, even if they formed a single point where they enter the saw kerf, the back of the wedges would meet at an angle, instead of as a single, flat surface to drive with a hammer (axe, etc.).

Is that correct?

Philbert

 

[deye223]

In high school, we would call the one in your top sketch a 'right triangle' (90° corner), and the one in your bottom sketch an 'isosceles triangle' (2 of the sides are the same length).

But, as I understand your key point, if I stack 2 wedges 'A' or 2 wedges 'B' back-to-back, even if they formed a single point where they enter the saw kerf, the back of the wedges would meet at an angle, instead of as a single, flat surface to drive with a hammer (axe, etc.).

Is that correct?

Philbert

Yes and they have a tendency as you drive one in the other one will bounce out cos there's more lift with a double taper wedge where is the single taper when you stack them the angles match better hard to explain bayleys used to sell single taper wedges years ago I don't know if they still.

And yes you are correct with the names of the triangles it's just that with all the heart medications I have to take and very high doses of beta blockers my memory recall definitely is not what it used to be unfortunately

 

[Skeans1]

Of the 4 which is which? @Philbert


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[Skeans1]

Yes and they have a tendency as you drive one in the other one will bounce out cos there's more lift with a double taper wedge where is the single taper when you stack them the angles match better hard to explain bayleys used to sell single taper wedges years ago I don't know if they still.

And yes you are correct with the names of the triangles it's just that with all the heart medications I have to take and very high doses of beta blockers my memory recall definitely is not what it used to be unfortunately

You can stack A or C style wedges a little saw dust and technique goes a long ways we do it a lot falling timber.


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[K Mueller]

“D” is considered a triple taper according to this.
https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm04232822/page11.htm
https://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm04232822/page11.htm

But out West I’ve always heard them referred to as a double taper and everything else single taper.

 

[Philbert]

Of the 4 which is which? @Philbert

(2) Yellow&Red ones (at left in bottom photo) are 'D' (slightly different tips than my sketch);
Orange (Husqvarna?) could have been 'B' or 'C' (and can be either with a little filing);
Long yellow one - cant' tell, but also could have been 'B' or 'C' .

This is part of the reason for my interest.
1) I hear these terms used so differently, and I was wondering if there were some agreed upon definitions to use when discussing wedges;
2) When restoring / renewing / salvaging wedges (as in referenced thread, below), I have the option to make them either 'B' or 'C', once the original tips are gone.

https://opeforum.com/threads/wedge-renewal.13185/

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

Yes and they have a tendency as you drive one in the other one will bounce out cos there's more lift with a double taper wedge where is the single taper when you stack them the angles match better

This is a related question, and whether it makes a difference if the wedges are used for felling or bucking.

In felling, the full wedge may be driven in to get lift, and multiple wedges might need to be stacked. As @deye223 points out, the points of some wedge designs align better when stacked, and the backs may align straighter for whacking.

When bucking, I am usually just concerned with keeping my saw from getting pinched (or getting it free when stuck). Maybe others drive their in full length when bucking large stuff (?).

It was interesting to find in some old Forest Service materials (same one @K Mueller referenced a few posts above) :
1) that bucking wedges for crosscut saws may need a finer tip, due to the thinner kerf made, compared to chainsaws;
2) old school 'bucking wedges' (look more like axe heads to me) were steel, and wide, and sometimes placed perpendicular to the cut, to keep the cut log from rolling / shearing when cut.


Philbert

 

[Skeans1]

(2) Yellow&Red ones (at left in bottom photo) are 'D' (slightly different tips than my sketch);
Orange (Husqvarna?) could have been 'B' or 'C' (and can be either with a little filing);
Long yellow one - cant' tell, but also could have been 'B' or 'C' .

This is part of the reason for my interest.
1) I hear these terms used so differently, and I was wondering if there were some agreed upon definitions to use when discussing wedges;
2) When restoring / renewing / salvaging wedges (as in referenced thread, below), I have the option to make them either 'B' or 'C', once the original tips are gone.

https://opeforum.com/threads/wedge-renewal.13185/

Philbert

The yellow and orange headed one are double taper double lifts, all the others are single taper single lifts. The orange ones are scotsco brand, the other the 15” is a double taper brand single taper single lift. All but the double taper double lift you can stack or even mix well stacking.

For the bevel on the front it’s personal preference I run all three and as you can tell a few have met the bar tip a time or two.


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