Tree felling video

[gurwald]

The short bars are not so much about the felling but about limbing and being light. 99% of logging in Sweden is spruce and 99% is with machines.
The type of logging on the pnw is nothing like here, our ways are better over here but would suck over there.

 

[isaaccarlson]

My brother got a job this winter working for a logging company here in western wi. Hardwood, firewood, and improvement cutting. He said he is required to use 5 cuts. Anything else and they get upset. They must have watched a youtube channel or they require it because they don't pay enough to get any good fallers. ($20/hr is nowhere near enough).

He runs a 462 and a 500i with 18/20" bars. He could use a smaller ported saw and a 24" bar, but he'd probably have to pay that out of pocket.

 

[davidwyby]

My brother got a job this winter working for a logging company here in western wi. Hardwood, firewood, and improvement cutting. He said he is required to use 5 cuts. Anything else and they get upset. They must have watched a youtube channel or they require it because they don't pay enough to get any good fallers. ($20/hr is nowhere near enough).

He runs a 462 and a 500i with 18/20" bars. He could use a smaller ported saw and a 24" bar, but he'd probably have to pay that out of pocket.

Why not 3?

 

[Normzilla]

Likewise, I wasn't trying to butt in and say this is only way to cut trees. It appears everyone here is in agreement that people should cut the safest way they know how, and depending on species, time of year, forest conditions, equipment on hand, etc. it can be different for everyone. Different cuts for different cutters. I was simply answering your question "what was I looking for" about his videos. He's showing one technique that has inherent risk mitigation when applied correctly.

I do think for people in the east cutting larger hardwoods who want to prioritize safety over everything else, there's no safer technique to use in those situations than what he's showing. Sure there's plenty of safe ways to cut, some may be equally as safe, but none are any safer in the conditions he's showing.

IMHO, when it comes to safety this technique is definitely near the top for many situations.

I gotcha Amigo no worries the what was I looking for just meant what particular thread or video

 

[Normzilla]

@Normzilla, @afleetcommand cuts his trees how he does because the trees demand it. If he doesn’t bore and gut the hinge, they fiber pull and or barber chair. That type of wood is very prone to splitting and fiber pull damages valuable wood. Sometimes he runs 70cc and sometimes 95.

We deal with the same stuff here, I'll Humboldt face all day ling, have lower stumps, won't barrier chair them and pull as much wiid ot less as u wanna pull. Fir and pine pull wood too. Alot depends on hinge wood and how much you need to guide them. If I'm laying down trees without too many obstacles, certainly hardwoods I'll burn em right off the stump faster and less cuts. Eucalyptus like to split and barber chair if not cut properly I'm using all the same techniques. I'm seeing guys.who.want to pack less bar, as he also stated and it brings it to a preference thing. And limits your cutting, or ads more cuts plain and simple. I've been cutting over 35 years, and most of it production and professionally, seen all types of trees, cuts and techniques. Everything circles back to Humbolt cuts, low stumps west coast style and techniques. Funny thing is that style would work here and in Europe. But the Euro style short bars and bore cut style would be super limited here. Even in Europe a 28 inch or bigger bar would be so much more efficient. West coast motto you pack the bar and saw that will cut all your needs. I'm sure many could use a 20 or 24 in multiple hardwood situations, but unless it's a bigger than normal tree they are making way to many cuts, and surprised to see they waste more wood than we do here. We leave lower stumps here, especially logging jobs. I think Cal fire mandates last time I checked with my Amigo, a legit timber faller. 6inch stumps I believe. I guess in hardwood they are not caring on Stumps, but the waste and pull with their high stumps amends that argument. They are losing more wood in the stump, most trees here even hardwood not much is lost pulling fiber, the way we get past the waste compensate on the stump. And usually the hard pullers could had more hinge wood cut and faster. If you want to cut that way or advocate it that's cool, it's not for me or any I've cut and learned with, and as I mentioned they would not be able to be employed on. Timber job, and most tree work that would be to slow. I bust think youtube is reaching too many people. So I'm stepping outa this cut.how ya want best of luck Amigo, you know where I stand including the shark gill method.

 

[Loony661]

We deal with the same stuff here, I'll Humboldt face all day ling, have lower stumps, won't barrier chair them and pull as much wiid ot less as u wanna pull. Fir and pine pull wood too. Alot depends on hinge wood and how much you need to guide them. If I'm laying down trees without too many obstacles, certainly hardwoods I'll burn em right off the stump faster and less cuts. Eucalyptus like to split and barber chair if not cut properly I'm using all the same techniques. I'm seeing guys.who.want to pack less bar, as he also stated and it brings it to a preference thing. And limits your cutting, or ads more cuts plain and simple. I've been cutting over 35 years, and most of it production and professionally, seen all types of trees, cuts and techniques. Everything circles back to Humbolt cuts, low stumps west coast style and techniques. Funny thing is that style would work here and in Europe. But the Euro style short bars and bore cut style would be super limited here. Even in Europe a 28 inch or bigger bar would be so much more efficient. West coast motto you pack the bar and saw that will cut all your needs. I'm sure many could use a 20 or 24 in multiple hardwood situations, but unless it's a bigger than normal tree they are making way to many cuts, and surprised to see they waste more wood than we do here. We leave lower stumps here, especially logging jobs. I think Cal fire mandates last time I checked with my Amigo, a legit timber faller. 6inch stumps I believe. I guess in hardwood they are not caring on Stumps, but the waste and pull with their high stumps amends that argument. They are losing more wood in the stump, most trees here even hardwood not much is lost pulling fiber, the way we get past the waste compensate on the stump. And usually the hard pullers could had more hinge wood cut and faster. If you want to cut that way or advocate it that's cool, it's not for me or any I've cut and learned with, and as I mentioned they would not be able to be employed on. Timber job, and most tree work that would be to slow. I bust think youtube is reaching too many people. So I'm stepping outa this cut.how ya want best of luck Amigo, you know where I stand including the shark gill method.

Youtube is definitely a double edged sword: useful to those who already practice and understand the basic and beyond who can visualize and adapt new cuts to their “tool box”, yet at the same time, super dangerous for people who have limited skills and experience - it gives them a false feeling of confidence because they saw some guy do it right on YT, so all the trees must be like that...

 

[isaaccarlson]

The amount of wasted wood around here makes me sick. Anything under 6 ft goes in a junk pile and gets left in the woods. They'll charge 100/cord for firewood, but you can't go pick through the shorter pieces and keep them from being wasted. I'd buy a dump truck and haul the short stuff all day just to see it get used. All they care about is money in their pocket.

 

[Hinerman]

This one really hit home, I follow all their stuff. The video jacob Roger's put together made my wife and I cry. What a loss did not know him personally but kinda felt like I know these guys through all their stuff.

Wouldn’t his company have some sort of liability or life insurance to help his family?

This might be silly, but is there a Union for people in the tree service and logging industry?

 

[Normzilla]

Wouldn’t his company have some sort of liability or life insurance to help his family?

This might be silly, but is there a Union for people in the tree service and logging industry?

I was wondering and thinking same thing. The sad reality probably is the waiting game I'd figure. And you.know how bills keep coming. I sure do

 

[Catbuster]

Wouldn’t his company have some sort of liability or life insurance to help his family?

He should at least get workman’s comp.
Life insurance is usually on the person, very few companies will carry it for their employees because WC covers it already. In terms of liability, I believe Jed was the foreman and nobody forced him to do it. When the OSH act passed it codified into law that the employee can’t be forced to do something they feel is unsafe.

This might be silly, but is there a Union for people in the tree service and logging industry?

Surprisingly, no, at least not to any significant extent. Logging & tree work is a fairly specialized, and fairly small labor group. It generally pays fairly well, and I’ve never seen a union outfit. Historically, there have been a few company unions (4Ls) and there have been movements in the past started by the AFL when logging employed more people. Tree guys mostly work in a small scale and get compensated pretty fairly, so collective bargaining either isn’t implemented or the people working don’t feel like it’s needed.

 

[Normzilla]

He should at least get workman’s comp.
Life insurance is usually on the person, very few companies will carry it for their employees because WC covers it already. In terms of liability, I believe Jed was the foreman and nobody forced him to do it. When the OSH act passed it codified into law that the employee can’t be forced to do something they feel is unsafe.



Surprisingly, no, at least not to any significant extent. Logging & tree work is a fairly specialized, and fairly small labor group. It generally pays fairly well, and I’ve never seen a union outfit. Historically, there have been a few company unions (4Ls) and there have been movements in the past started by the AFL when logging employed more people. Tree guys mostly work in a small scale and get compensated pretty fairly, so collective bargaining either isn’t implemented or the people working don’t feel like it’s needed.

T hanks for the clarification sums alot up. And yeah I'm in agreement too, never really heard of unions around tree or logging trades either.

 

[Loony661]

Wouldn’t his company have some sort of liability or life insurance to help his family?

This might be silly, but is there a Union for people in the tree service and logging industry?

I could go union if I wanted to. I almost did for the benefits package. Our IUOE local covers loggers, but they just started doing that in 2018 and only have a couple companies on board. I was with the same union when I worked for the Co Highway Dept, which is why I knew about it, but in the end, I declined. We get better coverage for less money through Mayo Clinic where my wife works.. Otherwise, I would be signed up, and covered, in full.

 

[Loony661]

The amount of wasted wood around here makes me sick. Anything under 6 ft goes in a junk pile and gets left in the woods. They'll charge 100/cord for firewood, but you can't go pick through the shorter pieces and keep them from being wasted. I'd buy a dump truck and haul the short stuff all day just to see it get used. All they care about is money in their pocket.

That’s crazy! On my jobs, I sell the cull logs for $75/cord since it’s all green, and not cut to firewood length. The ends and pieces on the landing after the logs are gone, I give the guy who buys the culls, for free. It’s a win-win. The guy buys decent firewood, and I get my landings cleaned up so I don’t have to mess with that before spring.

 

[bradb123]

The amount of wasted wood around here makes me sick. Anything under 6 ft goes in a junk pile and gets left in the woods. They'll charge 100/cord for firewood, but you can't go pick through the shorter pieces and keep them from being wasted. I'd buy a dump truck and haul the short stuff all day just to see it get used. All they care about is money in their pocket.

I cut on property that was logged in September 2019 . The amount of waste left behind is unreal! The logger left 3 scrap piles at there landings . Over the past few years I've probably cut 100 cords out of the piles for outside wood boilers and my self . These pictures are from last spring. These piles were massive at one point in time.

 

[isaaccarlson]

This is why we can't have nice things...

I don't know if anyone will ever see these majestic trees again in their true form. This sign is right down the road from me.....and I start to cry every time I read or think about it. There is a man in the second picture.

 

[jurchybald]

It’s definitely a regional thing. Here in the midwest, specifically South Eastern Minnesota along the Mississippi river valley, bore cutting for felling is used 90% of the time on hardwoods. If we don’t bore cut, and also don’t remove the heartwood from the hinge, we risk pulling heartwood and losing very valuable wood, fast. It should also be noted, that I don’t feel we can just backcut like you guys because our trees are so much shorter on average. Most trees I’m cutting are 40-70ft tall. By the time it starts going over, I cannot cut fast enough to get the hinge narrow enough to 1) be safe 2) not wreck wood 3) give myself enough time to exit. I’ve watched a lot of west coast vids and I can tell you that you guys have a lot more time to continue the cut and also escape safely than I do here.

Perfectly explained.
Most of the time tree is a leaner. I do bore cut from compressed fiber side first and than from the other side. Reason for this it to shape hinge before tree is moving and not get pinched. It's hard to explain like this but I have no advantage with longer bar. Liming is another thing that I just cannot do with long bars. I feel like a bus in the woods. Regional thing? personal thing? who cares. just cut and be safe!

 

[davidwyby]

I think west coasters run longer bars because the trees often require it. Can’t carry multiple saws, so their methods evolved to work with the trees and saws they have. Walking the tree and limbing. Europeans do it thusly:

I have used the method of sliding the saw along on the trunk when I got the rare chance and it works real well, and fast.

 

[Normzilla]

Also keeps you from having to heave that saw up on every limb too, saves energy indeed. Hey I figured out how to close any road in Europe or the east coast.

 

[Normzilla]

 

[isaaccarlson]

I guess I need a pair of those stands to drop the tree on for easy limbing.