T&S CZ223 review

[tek9tim]

It was pretty hard to find any info on the relatively new CZ223 square grinder, so when there was some money in the work budget for a square grinder, I decided to buy one and find out myself.

First and foremost, I'm not a super experienced square grinder. For about 20 years, I've bought Oregon CJ and square filed it as long as I could keep the angles good and then started round filing. I just started square grinding in earnest about 5 years ago when I got ahold of a used Simington 451B for my home shop. I have a lot of time on that machine, and I've sharpened a few loops on a Silvey RS2. No time on any of the other Silvey grinders.

To put the bottom line at the top, the CZ223 makes fast chains and does it relatively precisely. I like grinding on it more than I like grinding my Simington.

I called T&S up and had a long chat. He's continuing to refine the machine and plans to make any updates backwards compatible. Since he was so genuine and had a good engineering mind, I don't want to put something out that's mostly small complaints without enough focus on the positive. I'm away from work, so can't make a longer video but have time to write a post so here goes with some cons and pros.

Cons-

More expensive than the Simington, but considering the features, adjustability, and build quality, it's not bad.

Chain grabber doesn't keep the tooth from climbing the wheel. And if you squeeze hard on the chain grabber to keep the tooth in place, it pushes the guide rail and changes how the cutter meets the corner of the wheel. They're working on a fix.

Taking the chain on and off the machine isn't as easy as on the Simington or RS2. I'm used to pulling the chain off to check my corner as I'm dialing in the settings. Turns out it's pretty easy to flip the pawl up and roll the chain back so you can look at it. That way, you don't ever need to take the chain off the grinder until you're done. Works great, in the end not a problem that it's kind of weird to put the chain on the grinder.

The dressers could use some refining, and he's working on a complete change there. In the end, they're fine the way they are, but could be better. His plan is better than I would have asked for.

The direction switch is mounted vertically, and I'd rather have it horizontal so you pull it toward the side you're working on. I'll rotate mine so it's like the Silvey and Simington.

My motor needs to be shimmed to make left and right come out the same without adjustments, but that's the same as any grinder that has the possibility of directly duplicating the grind from right to left.

The carriage has a little bit of flex in it front to back when you're over on the right side of the wheel. The stop is over on the left side, so you can push it a little past pretty easily if you aren't careful. It's actually easy to just push the carriage forward by the stop over on the left side when you're grinding the right side.

Pros-

Very precise and smooth movement. It's genuinely pleasant to run, and takes very gentle movement to push the cutter into the wheel.

Holds the corner on the wheel a lot longer than the Simington.

The variable speed is really nice, I didn't know I wanted that feature. As I've gotten more comfortable with the grinder, I don't need to pulse the tooth into the wheel, first grinder I've used that I could manage the heat well enough to do a slow steady feed.

Range of adjustability is huge and can be tuned finely. That's a bit of a con at first when trying to get started. Once you get in the neighborhood, it's easy to make small adjustments and get it just how you want it. You can precisely raise and lower the carriage, which is really nice for maintaining angles as the tooth wears down or for grinding .325 or 3/8LP chain - which it works great on. It's easy to make marks on the height so you can return to past settings. It would also make it easy to change side plate angle a little if you were running a CBN wheel.

Having a dust port is really nice, especially when dressing the wheel.

Here's a real quick video of grinding some Picco-

Fire away with any questions!

 

[jacob j.]

Very thorough and honest review Tim - looking on the website, it appears they've put a lot of engineering into this grinder. A lot of the movement points have actual bearings as opposed to bushings on the arm and a fixed pin on the chassis. From your video, setting up to grind the smaller chain chassis is easier.

 

[Philbert]

Thanks!

Philbert

 

[Khntr85]

Damn $2300….can you post a pic of a cutter tooth by chance???

 

[tek9tim]

Very thorough and honest review Tim - looking on the website, it appears they've put a lot of engineering into this grinder. A lot of the movement points have actual bearings as opposed to bushings on the arm and a fixed pin on the chassis. From your video, setting up to grind the smaller chain chassis is easier.

Yeah, I like the idea of CNC machining the parts, bolting them together, and using linear bearings for movement.

Also no play in the pawl or chances for it to sit differently on one tooth vs the next.

One thing I left out is corner visibility. The stand is shorter than most, so you have to sit in a chair to get the good angle, but you can easily see as the top beak disappears or when a side beak starts forming.

It's super easy to set up for small chassis chain. Just raise the carriage a little and go for it. I haven't had to thin out the wheel like I do on my Simington.

 

[tek9tim]

Damn $2300….can you post a pic of a cutter tooth by chance???

I mean, the Simington is $1600. Adjusting for inflation, $2300 matches up to what the Silvey SDM went for, adjusted for inflarion, when they went out of business.

Oddly don't have pics of a cutter, and I'm a couple thousand miles away from home this week. Any pics of a cutter would just reflect what I want the cutter to be, there's plenty of adjustment to change the angles to what you want them to be. I'll grab some pictures next week once I'm back though.

 

[Khntr85]

I mean, the Simington is $1600. Adjusting for inflation, $2300 matches up to what the Silvey SDM went for, adjusted for inflarion, when they went out of business.

Oddly don't have pics of a cutter, and I'm a couple thousand miles away from home this week. Any pics of a cutter would just reflect what I want the cutter to be, there's plenty of adjustment to change the angles to what you want them to be. I'll grab some pictures next week once I'm back though.

Good deal man…ya just curious to see the final product l, looks like a badass machine!!!!

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Good review. What is the plan for improving the dressers?

 

[tek9tim]

Good review. What is the plan for improving the dressers?

So my problem with the dressers is that they're single point and not the same as the ones for a Simington or Silvey, so can't just swap out for an existing multipoint. Also, the other grinders have the ability to clamp the threads to take out the backlash so the dresser stays in a consistent spot. It could be that there's a set screw to fix that and I haven't noticed yet.

The idea he's currently working on is to have coarse CBN on the end of square rods that you press into the wheel to dress it. The improvement would be that you could dress the whole surface at once, and the finish on the wheel would be really nice. There are some challenges for sure, tolerances would have to be pretty tight to keep from getting chatter, and without it swinging over the surface, loss of some of the CBN would mean an undressed portion of the wheel.

 

[tek9tim]

 

[Duane(Pa)]

So my problem with the dressers is that they're single point and not the same as the ones for a Simington or Silvey, so can't just swap out for an existing multipoint. Also, the other grinders have the ability to clamp the threads to take out the backlash so the dresser stays in a consistent spot. It could be that there's a set screw to fix that and I haven't noticed yet.

The idea he's currently working on is to have coarse CBN on the end of square rods that you press into the wheel to dress it. The improvement would be that you could dress the whole surface at once, and the finish on the wheel would be really nice. There are some challenges for sure, tolerances would have to be pretty tight to keep from getting chatter, and without it swinging over the surface, loss of some of the CBN would mean an undressed portion of the wheel.

I have no problem with the readily available 5/16" fine thread dressers. Hate the dust, but sounds like that is addressed with vacuum port. Fancy CBN dressing rod sounds expensive.

 

[Chris H]

This thread tipped me toward the T&S grinder over the Simington. I have been wanting a square grinder for over 30 years but could never afford the cost of entry. I had always had my eyes on the Silvey ProSharp but they went out of business.

I have never done square grinding before. This grinder showed up Friday and after setting it up and a few trials on an old chain, I have been off to the races. I have done 4 chains so far and am impressed. I will try to get some photos posted and will get a summary of how the chains are cutting once I can get them into some wood.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Congratulations! YOLO
If you’re anything like me, there won’t be any round chains left in the arsenal. In the videos, that grinder looks smooth as butter.

 

[Chris H]

It really is. I was able to convert the round ground chains over to square pretty quickly all things considered. Once I got the angles dialed in, things fell in place. The variable speed feature is really nice. I set it at 1,500 RPM’s so that I would not have to worry about overheating the teeth while converting from round to square. It grinds really quickly at that speed and no significant heat is in the tooth. I am able to hold it immediately after sharpening. I am using the white stone that the grinder came with but also got the blue ceramic stone.

The grinder motor is incredibly quiet, vibration free and has a ton of torque. This thing is built with quality throughout. There are no cut corners and no plastic parts that will break or wear out. All the moving parts have bearings, including the dressers. Impressive. The height adjustment feature in the chain carriage is great. I was able to do my first chain with really aggressive angles on the top plate cutting profile (the bevel of the cutting edge) by running the height all the way up. The edge is razor sharp but I know it won’t last as long as the proverbial work chain with more of a chisel profile. I ground the rest of the chains with a conservative work profile. Top plate angle is right at 27 degrees. I might dial this back to 20 degrees if it feeds too aggressively. Just waiting for a break in the weather to get it in some wood!

 

[Chris H]

It really is. I was able to convert the round ground chains over to square pretty quickly all things considered. Once I got the angles dialed in, things fell in place. The variable speed feature is really nice. I set it at 1,500 RPM’s so that I would not have to worry about overheating the teeth while converting from round to square. It grinds really quickly at that speed and no significant heat is in the tooth. I am able to hold it immediately after sharpening. I am using the white stone that the grinder came with but also got the blue ceramic stone.

The grinder motor is incredibly quiet, vibration free and has a ton of torque. This thing is built with quality throughout. There are no cut corners and no plastic parts that will break or wear out. All the moving parts have bearings, including the dressers. Impressive. The height adjustment feature in the chain carriage is great. I was able to do my first chain with really aggressive angles on the top plate cutting profile (the bevel of the cutting edge) by running the height all the way up. The edge is razor sharp but I know it won’t last as long as the proverbial work chain with more of a chisel profile. I ground the rest of the chains with a conservative work profile. Top plate angle is right at 27 degrees. I might dial this back to 20 degrees if it feeds too aggressively. Just waiting for a break in the weather to get it in some wood!

Actually, I measured the top plate again and it is right at 23 degrees. I think I will like that angle but need to get it in some wood.

 

[Duane(Pa)]

Actually, I measured the top plate again and it is right at 23 degrees. I think I will like that angle but need to get it in some wood.

I have never precisely measured my top plate angle. It is considerably less than the 30 degree witness mark. For people wondering how to change it. It is a function of the dressed top surface of the stone.