Received Asian MS440 Big Bore Triplets Today

[MG porting]

Between having to go to Motor Vehicles and T Storms, I did not get to run any saws today.

That's a bummer but know the feeling me and a buddy of mine are going to be heading out of town to hopefully get a 72 Ford f250 to do a body swop for his highboy and pick up a front clip for his Mustang the got a boo-boo this last winter. So no time for saws today for me as well. Lol

 

[MustangMike]

Tested two saws in the wood today, both did well, unfortunately hit something in the middle of the 1st cut with the 044, so test was brief.

However, NO EXCESSIVE VIBES WITH OEM 044 PISTON + CYLINDER!!! The saw popped on the second pull, and was pulling strong in some big Oak, till I saw sparks and the chips turned to sawdust!

Also tested a 460 with Asian Tank handle, HL Supply jug and Meteor piston. It ran very well. I was pleased with both saws.

Next will be a BB jug with OEM piston. I finished my port work on the BB jug (used to be on saw #1, but got replaced with OEM 044) today. Lowered the intake some more, added bride ports, and just touched up the exhaust port a bit. Looking forward to running it with an OEM piston I have. My new Asian 440 kits should be here on Tue.

 

[MustangMike]

Today I ripped down BB #2 and replaced the New West piston with a OEM Stihl 460 piston.

Did not put a B+C on it, and have not cut with it yet, but I piss revved it a bit and did not notice any bad vibs at all. I'll do more testing, but I think this has solved the problem.

It seems the Meteor 460 piston and New West BB piston (both weight 3.0 oz) are just too heavy for a 440 crank. They are about 20% heavier than a stock 440 piston, while the OEM 460 is only about 12% heavier.

 

[MG porting]

Today I ripped down BB #2 and replaced the New West piston with a OEM Stihl 460 piston.

Did not put a B+C on it, and have not cut with it yet, but I piss revved it a bit and did not notice any bad vibs at all. I'll do more testing, but I think this has solved the problem.

It seems the Meteor 460 piston and New West BB piston (both weight 3.0 oz) are just too heavy for a 440 crank. They are about 20% heavier than a stock 440 piston, while the OEM 460 is only about 12% heavier.

Yea 20%is quite a bit though you should gain more torque with a heavier piston but gets back to how much is to much. Lol

 

[MustangMike]

I put it in some wood today. It is a lot smoother, the saw is fast, but IMO lacks torque. Will see if I like the next cylinder better with the bridge ports.

 

[T.Roller]

I put it in some wood today. It is a lot smoother, the saw is fast, but IMO lacks torque. Will see if I like the next cylinder better with the bridge ports.

What were your numbers ?

 

[MustangMike]

Cyl #2, Sq .018 , 102.5, 122.5, 81

 

[T.Roller]

Cyl #2, Sq .018 , 102.5, 122.5, 81

That's the one that lacked torque ?

 

[MustangMike]

Yea, It may be the Black Oak, I will have to try it in some other wood, but I think my 460 (with a HL Supply jug and Meteor piston) was a good deal stronger.

It may also be the B+C, I'm robbing Peter to pay Paul (stealing B+Cs from other saws), maybe I took one off a 660 with the rakers dropped. I'll run it some more along with the other cylinder when the parts for that one come it.

I also wanted to compare it to the OEM 044, but that chain got rocked and my 1st attempt at bringing it back to life was not good! Stay tuned...

 

[MG porting]

I put it in some wood today. It is a lot smoother, the saw is fast, but IMO lacks torque. Will see if I like the next cylinder better with the bridge ports.

With a bridge port you're going to pick up more rpm but at the same time it's going to pick up speed in the cut.

 

[MustangMike]

My MOFO 460 has bridge ports, and that saw is strong! Big Bore jugs often have less room in the transfers, so hopefully bridge ports will help.

We will see, it is why I'm experimenting.

But it seems I'm a lot better at getting a regular 044/440 or 046/460 to run right.

That HL Supply ($20) jug with the Meteor piston feels strong (it is in a 460). I just cleaned up the ports and lowered the intake.

 

[MG porting]

My MOFO 460 has bridge ports, and that saw is strong! Big Bore jugs often have less room in the transfers, so hopefully bridge ports will help.

We will see, it is why I'm experimenting.

But it seems I'm a lot better at getting a regular 044/440 or 046/460 to run right.

That HL Supply ($20) jug with the Meteor piston feels strong (it is in a 460). I just cleaned up the ports and lowered the intake.

Funny how that works never hurts to experiment that how I feel. Lol

 

[MustangMike]

Well, I got 2 more 440 kits today. I know this is getting a little like 3 card monte, so I'll review:

I started building kit #4 today, which will get the BB cylinder that was originally on #1 and an OEM piston. (When I got an OEM 044 P+C, I put that on kit #1).

Kit #5 will be used with the OEM 044 case, and a special project I'll do with Dr Al.

I thought I was getting pretty good at doing the cranks on these by now, but I did not realize that when I put the case together, the bearing on the drive side must have moved out a bit, so when I went to install the oiler, it cracked! It is currently being JB Welded, but if that does not hold I'll just order another. The bearing has been seated to it's proper location (hammer + socket time).

 

[MustangMike]

Don't know if it is the OEM piston, or if the case is a bit different, or both, but I did not do anything to the base but my squish changed from .030 to .021.

I did lower the intake (it was at 72.5) and added bridge ports. I also did some minor cleaning up/improving of the other ports while I was in there. I addition, after these pics were taken, and based on advice in another thread, I put a larger circle stone in my grinder and improved the angle that the upper transfer goes into the port. Although I had moved the upper transfers closer to the intake, the groves I made were shallow and may have been ineffective.

Sorry, no pics of the finished product, the rain came, etc. But hopefully this improvement will help. I was going to try to improve the transfer tunnel itself, but they really did not look bad at all, so I left them be. I'm hoping the location of the upper transfers was part of the problem.

I re claimed the OEM piston from the dead!!! I measured it, and it has just as much meat on it as the BB piston, so it should be fine. It came off a 460 that someone had pulled the jug off years ago. It was filthy, and the rings were jammed with dirt and both broke coming off. So I soaked it in ATF fluid for a while and cleaned it up, and installed a set of Cabers and it looks good to go. Spent a lot of time cleaning the ring grooves with a broken ring. There was nothing wrong with them other than the dirt. Hey, at almost $100 a shot, I'm not letting one go to waste cause it is dirty!

My final #s are 101.5, 118.5, 79.5. Not sure if I'll have the time to finish this tomorrow, and I'll be away Thurs - Sat, but I sure hope it runs better this time around!

 

[MustangMike]

Luckily I flushed the main bearings prior to putting the case halves together, a good size piece of metal came out of one of them. I'm sure stuff like this cases some of the reported failures.

I think they hired Jason for quality control!

 

[MG porting]

She's going to be a strong runner.

 

[MustangMike]

Fired her up today, and she sounds good, but no time to put it in the wood. Chain adjuster and chain brake both gave me problems, then T Storms came in.

Anyway, glad I fixed the oiler, don't know that I've seen another 440 flow like that one did!

I'll be away till Sat (off the grid). My brother and I are bringing a total of 4 Grandson's up to the cabin for a few days. Should be a good time.

The saw will be coming with me, I'll see if I get time to play with it.

I think we will mostly be shooting and riding on the ATVs.

 

[MG porting]

Fired her up today, and she sounds good, but no time to put it in the wood. Chain adjuster and chain brake both gave me problems, then T Storms came in.

Anyway, glad I fixed the oiler, don't know that I've seen another 440 flow like that one did!

I'll be away till Sat (off the grid). My brother and I are bringing a total of 4 Grandson's up to the cabin for a few days. Should be a good time.

The saw will be coming with me, I'll see if I get time to play with it.

I think we will mostly be shooting and riding on the ATVs.

Very cool have fun.

 

[MustangMike]

Well, the Asian carbs with these 440 kits are driving me crazy. On the 660 kits, I got all the carbs to work well, and only had to play with the fuel lever height on one of them, and I had no problem knowing where to adjust it.

Saw #4 fired on the 7th pull (not bad for a dry, never used carb), started 2 pulls later, idled fine and tacked up w/o hesitation. I really though I was good to go. I bring the saw up to my property, go into the woods and find a nice Ash tree that the wind took down, and try to start the saw. I checked that the choke was on, and 2 dozen pulls later, still not a kick.

So I open the fuel cap and pour a little mix into the air filter cover, prime it, and it starts and runs. Cuts through the Ash like it is butter, I'm pleased. So the next day I want one of my relatives (who is a tree guy) to try it out. Saw still won't start. We prime it 3 times. Each time it fires and runs a second or two, then dies.

I bring it home, and today I try to start it again … no go. So I put a used HD-16b on it. Kicks on the 5th pull, fires two pulls later, and runs great after a bit of tuning. I put it in a big piece of Black Oak and it did well. I would describe it as very fast with moderate torque, and I was happy with how it cut.

Vibs with the OEM piston are a lot less that with the AM BB piston, but they are a lot smoother with a 440 piston.

So, all 4 of the Asian 440 carbs needed the diameter of the choke plate reduced, or it would stick. Saw #1 did not need any other work and runs well with the 044 P+C. I rebuilt the carbs on #2 and #3, and #3 ran fine after that, but #2 still did not run right and now runs with a ZAMA CM3. I may try rebuilding this carb (#4) after I get more kits, but I still have a few OEM carbs (both ZAMA + Walbro).

If you put an OEM carb on either a Asian 440 or 460 tank handle, put a small piece of 660 fuel line on the end of the carb control lever and your choke will work just fine. It is a lot easier to do this before you install the carb.

Also, lube the crap out of the control levers before you move them, then work them in a bit before you use them. Fluid Film seem to work well for this. Spray every contact point on the control lever, and the metal kill switch stuff.

If you don't do these things, you are going to have issues with the AM stuff.

 

[J_M____]

Mike, did you have to file a little bit of plastic to get the operator presence lever to work properly? I have used 3 aftermarket handles and they would all get stuck. I got them to work just fine, did you have any issue?

I used some white lithium grease on the switch and worked it back and forth and got it to move smoothly on them all. I also had issues with the stock carb choke working properly. I soldered a bump on the back of the choke plate so it doesn’t open back so far. Works the same as the rubber over the lever. Wish I thought of that first.