rebuild 302 or swap in 351?

[Steve]

View attachment 347107

Not going to get a good pattern from this one..

Or this one.

 

[redline4]

Kinda like this one too.

 

[Steve]

Kinda like this one too.
View attachment 347109

My carriers where still there but I had to burn the outer off with a torch to get the pinion out!!

 

[stretch5881]

One of the last swaps I had done was 351w in place of a worn out 302. The only thing I had to do different was lengthen the exhaust crossover pipe. The eec worked fine.
Any of the 3 choices you have would work fine because the best swap, to make the biggest difference, was the transmission. My own experience with Ford trucks has been 1952, 1973, 1978, 1983, 1987 and 1996. Every single one would have benefited the most with a gearing change or transmission upgrade. Many engines I built for other people seemed sluggish because they couldn't keep them in the proper rpm range because of too high geared with big tires, or too much space between gears in the old 4 speeds.

 

[Steve]

One of the last swaps I had done was 351w in place of a worn out 302. The only thing I had to do different was lengthen the exhaust crossover pipe. The eec worked fine.
Any of the 3 choices you have would work fine because the best swap, to make the biggest difference, was the transmission. My own experience with Ford trucks has been 1952, 1973, 1978, 1983, 1987 and 1996. Every single one would have benefited the most with a gearing change or transmission upgrade. Many engines I built for other people seemed sluggish because they couldn't keep them in the proper rpm range because of too high geared with big tires, or too much space between gears in the old 4 speeds.

Good to know with the swap worked out well. I know I fought a very small vacuum leak for a while on my 300 that caused a hell of a drivability issue. Figured if that little leak was too much for the EEC then 49ci would be a problem too.


I agree with the gearing. It is all too often overlooked on most builds. Just like brake systems.

 

[FergusonTO35]

You guys think a Windsor block engine is weak, try the 2.5 in my Ranger! That being said, the Pinto derived OHC four bangers are some of the best motors Ford ever made. Right up there with the Toyota 22R in my opinion. I've pulled some really heavy trailers up and down southern Ohio hills with that thing too. Store brand synthetic 5w30/FL-400S every 2000 miles FTW.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I agree with the gearing. It is all too often overlooked on most builds. Just like brake systems.

Ford used too tall gearing for years. My four banger 'Stang in college had a hilarious 2.73 or some nonsense like that.

 

[wap13]

Even doing the work yourself regearing a 4x4 is pricey esp if you you are doing lockers front and rear. And its much cooler to say you put a cam, heads, etc in than to talk regearing. I'm as guilty as anybody for chasing all out power when I should have been more concerned with the torque curve. I put a set of compounds on my 5.9 years ago that were too big. When they lit you could spin the tires (dual 35s) in 6th on wet pavement but stop light to stop light it wasnt that impressive.

I learned my lesson with one. Drive ability is much more important that really anything else on a daily or work vehicle and why I live transmissions with low first gears and low diff gears.

 

[wap13]

View attachment 347107

Not going to get a good pattern from this one..

Or this one.


View attachment 347108

Pretty sure those'll buff out if you take your time....

 

[stretch5881]

Even doing the work yourself regearing a 4x4 is pricey esp if you you are doing lockers front and rear. And its much cooler to say you put a cam, heads, etc in than to talk regearing. I'm as guilty as anybody for chasing all out power when I should have been more concerned with the torque curve. I put a set of compounds on my 5.9 years ago that were too big. When they lit you could spin the tires (dual 35s) in 6th on wet pavement but stop light to stop light it wasnt that impressive.

I learned my lesson with one. Drive ability is much more important that really anything else on a daily or work vehicle and why I live transmissions with low first gears and low diff gears.

I was kinda lucky. I had a '87 bronco with a 351 HO that was geared too low and a '85 f150 with a built 4.9 and a 3 speed with overdrive that was geared too high. I swapped gears between them and the bronco got better gas mileage, and the truck transmission was more like a car 4 speed. Before the swap, when I shifted into overdrive at 70, the rpm would drop to 1400. After the swap, 1800.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I think the 300 straight six is the best truck engine Ford ever made. Alot of medium duty trucks had them too. They've never had a real replacement for it either.

 

[Steve]

I think the 300 straight six is the best truck engine Ford ever made. Alot of medium duty trucks had them too. They've never had a real replacement for it either.

I think the 5.4 2-valve is the best. Damn things are everywhere and in everything. Hundreds of thousands of miles and no major mechanical problems. I've never had one with a bad base engine.

 

[wap13]

I think the 5.4 2-valve is the best. Damn things are everywhere and in everything. Hundreds of thousands of miles and no major mechanical problems. I've never had one with a bad base engine.

First I've heard of this. I know the later ones (was it 4v?) had their issues but didnt realize the early ones were that good. I hardly ever see any v10s with problems. Being nearly the same engines with +/- 2 cylinders it would make sense if on is good the other should be too.

 

[redline4]

LS swap.
Your welcome.

 

[Steve]

LS swap.
Your welcome.

Boo!

 

[Steve]

First I've heard of this. I know the later ones (was it 4v?) had their issues but didnt realize the early ones were that good. I hardly ever see any v10s with problems. Being nearly the same engines with +/- 2 cylinders it would make sense if on is good the other should be too.

3v had timing chain and valve train issues.

 

[redline4]

Boo!

Yeah, well you have to admit, cast iron block, aluminum headed 6.0 is arguably one of the best. Cheap, uncomplicated and can produce good power.

 

[Steve]

Yeah, well you have to admit, cast iron block, aluminum headed 6.0 is arguably one of the best. Cheap, uncomplicated and can produce good power.

Well, there is that...

 

[Steve]

First I've heard of this. I know the later ones (was it 4v?) had their issues but didnt realize the early ones were that good. I hardly ever see any v10s with problems. Being nearly the same engines with +/- 2 cylinders it would make sense if on is good the other should be too.

You also have to take into consideration that the 5.4 has only been around 20 years. It also was in production when most all cars would go 200k no problem. The 300 was in production since 1964 and was in production for 34 years. They also where around when most cars never seen 100,000 miles before they were scrapped. So it's easy to see why the 300 got a name for reliability when you could treat it the same as another engine and get 2 to 3 times the life out of it. The 300s also have fiber cam gears that like to strip off teeth and clog the oil pick up. They also have the bearing issue I posted earlier in the thread. The 300 also has just cast pistons. They where known to crack if the engine got too hot from running it hard. They also have no azz. Yes, they will do the job but they are slow.


I'm a huge fan of the 300 and it is a great engine which is why I chose to keep it in my truck instead of a v8 swap. I just think it is over hyped by lots of people that have never owned one or drivin one enough to get a good feel for the engine.

I know that in 19 years of servicing all makes and models of vehicles, the 5.4 has had the least mechanical repair of any Ford truck engine. And I have seen those trucks and service vans daily since I got my first job.

But again, it's not like there is an official scoring method to see an unbiased result.

 

[FergusonTO35]

When I was a tech, the Ford 4.6 and 5.4 motors were solid as it gets. I honestly don't remember my shop ever getting into one and many we saw were north of 200k. Now, the truck surrounding them often was a different story.