Narrow kerf not making a difference

[Squish9]

Looking for some help on this one. Short version is as follows

DCS460. 16", 66DL bars
325 SP33G chain - Huskies 325 pixel (NK) chain
325 S35G chain - Husky 058 semi

Total difference in overall kerf width is 0.8mm (38 thou) or 11.5% overall

Difference in cut speed was around 3% (average 11.1 vs 11.5) so within the margin of error.

Any ideas why the 10+% difference in kerf isn't having an effect on the cut speed? I always thought it would but I'm doubting it now. Both these chains where significantly faster than Oregon's NK (95TXL)

Has anyone else tested this and if so, what was the result?

There is a video but it's mostly more talking crap. Skip to around the 2 min mark to see it cutting

 

[Philbert]

Are you using a NK bar with the NK chain?

Philbert

 

[Squish9]

Are you using a NK bar with the NK chain?

Philbert

Yes. Ran 2 different bars because 050 normal kerf chain is hard to come by here so I had to use a 050 and 058 setup. One bar is a 058 to suit the S35G and the other is a Husky pixel 050 bar for the NK.

The NK bar is 0.6mm narrower compared to the other bar (3.8mm vs 4.4mm)

 

[Philbert]

A lot of people miss that detail!

Not sure if the newer, STIHL, narrower kerf chain requires a narrower kerf bar.

I don’t know who is promising a 10% improvement in speed. Might have been in softwood? In green wood?

It came OEM (‘Husq’ labeled Oregon chain) on a Husky 353, many years ago, and I liked it.

I think of it as letting a saw cut like it has more power / displacement, rather than increased speed.

Philbert

 

[Squish9]

A lot of people miss that detail!

Not sure if the newer, STIHL, narrower kerf chain requires a narrower kerf bar.

I don’t know who is promising a 10% improvement in speed. Might have been in softwood? In green wood?

It came OEM (‘Husq’ labeled Oregon chain) on a Husky 353, many years ago, and I liked it.

I think of it as letting a saw cut like it has more power / displacement, rather than increased speed.

Philbert

I had always assumed it would provide a benefit to cut speed but I'm not sure any more. There is a noticeable difference in the reaction force between then so it is nicer to use, just not any faster.

Thinking about it a bit more, the hardest work is severing the fibres with the corner / side plate, and cutting a smaller or larger kerf is really only reducing the work of the top plate. Since that has the relatively easy job of just planning out a chip, it probably won't have that big of an impact on cutting speed

I think this is one of those the more you know the less you realise you know cases. At least I didn't see this being the result

 

[Brad Button]

I have been using the Woodland Pro narrow kerf bar/chain from Baileys for years and found them to be a lot faster in the cut compared to the stock bar/chain. https://www.baileysonline.com/catal...w-bar-chain-combinations-wpc-nk/category/299/

 

[mainer_in_ak]

Those little safety bumps on both those .325 chains, bind up with wood dust against the drive links. Especially on smaller cc saws, the extra friction slows em down.

Try a gb narrow kerf bar with a loop of 63pmx and a loop of 63ps. Will need to run a bar adaptor and a gb 3/8 lp rim sprocket. Both would slap that goofy husq .325 safety chain silly. The pmx will retain sharpness longer.

These 20" bars are so dmn good, I get them shipped from AUS to Alaska for milling with the g777 small mill. The pmx chain comes from logosol-sweden.

Chainsaw Bar | GB Arbor-Tech | 3/8LP Milling Bar

GB Arbor-Tech 3/8LP Milling range is a perfect choice for precision milling of valuable timber, where minimal wastage and cut width is required. Arbor-Tech are professional rated, replacement nose bars for saws running 3/8" Low Profile drive sprockets. Arbor-Tech Milling bars feature a one...

www.whitesforestry.com

 

[Squareground3691]

Go PRO ,

 

[Squish9]

Those little safety bumps on both those .325 chains, bind up with wood dust against the drive links. Especially on smaller cc saws, the extra friction slows em down.

Try a gb narrow kerf bar with a loop of 63pmx and a loop of 63ps. Will need to run a bar adaptor and a gb 3/8 lp rim sprocket. Both would slap that goofy husq .325 safety chain silly. The pmx will retain sharpness longer.

I have run a 3/8LP setup on this saw in the past but went back to running a 058 hard nose bar because it oddly prefers to run full size 3/8. Its main use now is cleaning up all the small stuff and the 325 chains are really good at that. Got a good deal on the husky bars and wanted to try the NK setup so this is mostly for my on curiosity.

Don't write these off a just safety chains, they both cut extremely well for what they are, extremely close to the 23RS / 23RM pros.

Go PRO , View attachment 445152View attachment 445153

I have both the 23RS and RM pros but in a different size. Both are very good chains and almost impossible to pick them apart. the RM pro's corner in only very slightly rounded and the difference in cut speed between them isn't big.

I'm going to break down the sp33g to suit the 62dl bar so it can run with the 23's but looking at how all these out cut the 20lgx I had as a reference, there isn't much difference between them

 

[mainer_in_ak]

You asked a question why both were comparably slow. I answered it. Up to you, if you want to test the gb and stihl 3/8 lp. On a 45 cc saw, it's ideal.

 

[wood4pit]

I think it only faster in saws without the HP to pull the bigger chain.

 

[FederalQ]

I know the sp33g that came with my 550xpg would not bore cut with the Husqvarna bar. I bought a Sugihara .325 .050 for it and and then it would. It’s like 4.2mm thick (.165”) and accommodates NK chain. The Stihl 23rs cuts well and the Husqvarna pixel sharpening jig will fit that chain so the chassis is indeed narrower than standard .325.

 

[Woodslasher]

I think it only faster in saws without the HP to pull the bigger chain.

Negative, @davidwyby brought up an XS 346 with an 18"(?) narrow kerf bar and chain that I got to try out. It had enough balls to pull a 24" bar but that power with that little b/c combo made it freakin fast, smooth, and ideal for crappy conditions where other saws would get pinched all the time I could hardly put it down.

 

[davidwyby]

Negative, @davidwyby brought up an XS 346 with an 18"(?) narrow kerf bar and chain that I got to try out. It had enough balls to pull a 24" bar but that power with that little b/c combo made it freakin fast, smooth, and ideal for crappy conditions where other saws would get pinched all the time I could hardly put it down.

 

[davidwyby]

20”

Non NK Oregon bar. Cat’s meow. Stihl NK is fast! @species8472 races with it for a reason

 

[species8472]

20”

Non NK Oregon bar. Cat’s meow. Stihl NK is fast! @species8472 races with it for a reason

It cuts well out of box. Square it up Evan better.

 

[Squareground3691]

Ported 262XP 9T 20” bar with PRO , she’s cut eh

 

[ZERO]

@Squareground3691 1+

Pro chain full chisel with a square corner and a single bumper will be more efficient and have less rotational mass.
A square corner on a round file will be more efficient, reducing load on the saw!

More space with a single bumper and a cleaner gullet to expunge chips in larger wood, something that stock narrow kerf lacks.

On these sub 50cc saws you have to be on your game, bar maintenance, chain touch up, and reduce any drag that will already slow down a sub 50cc saw in the 66dl space.

These come in the sub 25thou rakers out of the factory. They have to be custom adjusted to the saw output, species cut, and fiber dryness.

 

[RCBS]

I run .325 on my 50's. Tried going to 3/8 with 550 and it didn't like it all that much. 18 & 20. My medium saws do a good bit of brushing/cleanup.

 

[Chainmale]

I run .325 on my 50's. Tried going to 3/8 with 550 and it didn't like it all that much. 18 & 20. My medium saws do a good bit of brushing/cleanup.

+1 my 550 has ⅜ on it at moment but will be going back to .325