Ms880

[rogue60]

Cleaning up my old ms880 last of the cast muffler 88's.
Thought some might find it interesting it's a high hr saw it's done a lot of hard work over the year's it's definitely never been babied.
This saw has only ever been run on the same MINERAL OIL.
It's a myth 2T mineral oil is not a good performing oil in saw's I think there is one other guy on chainsaw forums that also knows this and that's CR888 lol.

Sawdust fines are blamed for just about all damage ever found in a saw the end! Lol from stuck gumed up rings to piston scoring to blown bearings you name it even load side piston skirt wear.
It's a myth sawdust fines do zero damage to a saw engine I have never seen anything bad that could be blamed on fines getting past a filter in a saw's engine or anything posted that would change my mind?.
Most saw engine damage is from a perceived good oil or lack of oil or bad tune or just rubbish build quality in a saw to start with.
All IMHO I don't actually care what guys run in there saw's or how they treat them or blame damage on.

Anyways here's a few pics.

 

[rogue60]

I will have time over the weekend to pull the cylinder for some better pics of the piston and bore.
Never had the cylinder off before from new.
The exhaust side of the piston isn't scored it's light reflecting off the coating of oil was hard to get a clear pic of.

 

[oldbitz]

She's old and ugly but probably doesn't owe you a single cent, and been a bloody honest and hard working unit. As for the mineral oil, I always say to others why would I change when dead dinosaur juice works just fine for me.

 

[rogue60]

She's old and ugly but probably doesn't owe you a single cent, and been a bloody honest and hard working unit. As for the mineral oil, I always say to others why would I change when dead dinosaur juice works just fine for me.

Yeah just thought some might find it interesting a saw run on the same oil for many many years not the trendy I've run 5 gallons of this expensive synthetic oil through my saw and wow it's awesome (insert pics here) best oil out there bar none crap lol
I posted pics a well abused high hr 066 or 660 running the same dino oil as this saw on here few year ago aswell.

 

[traffic903]

Maybe I misunderstood, but if you are saying that fines don't do engine damage then I strongly disagree. Oil is obviously important, and filtration is equally so. But again, perhaps I read your post wrong.

 

[rogue60]

Maybe I misunderstood, but if you are saying that fines don't do engine damage then I strongly disagree. Oil is obviously important, and filtration is equally so. But again, perhaps I read your post wrong.

That's ok I know you disagree as do many more than just you. Sawdust fines are blamed for everything yet myself have never seen this phenomenon?. I'm all for seeing pics if anyone has any? of say warn through cylinder plating thanks to sawdust fines and nothing to do with the breakdown of oil film strength or just plane old an oil not doing as good of a job as it clames on the bottle? for example.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I have a Stihl ms 362 I’m rebuilding right now and the plating is wore of the cylinder on the intake side mostly around the stratto ports. Lots of dust/sawdust on inside of the air filter. 4-5 year old tree service saw with the old style air filter that never got cleaned or cleaned enough. I’ll post pics this afternoon

 

[traffic903]

That's ok I know you disagree as do many more than just you. Sawdust fines are blamed for everything yet myself have never seen this phenomenon?. I'm all for seeing pics if anyone has any? of say warn through cylinder plating thanks to sawdust fines and nothing to do with the breakdown of oil film strength or just plane old an oil not doing as good of a job as it clames on the bottle? for example.

I have seen cylinder plating worn completely through on numerous saws from poor filtration, especially 3120, 562, 362 (like above) and 084. I've also seen crank and rod bearing failures from fines as well. The 562 is probably the worst of all for that. Fines get past the filter (very easily) and are carries into the bearings, destroying them. One 562 that i worked on lasted less than 6 months. The owner never bothered to clean the filter and the crank was toast in that short a time. I've also seen pistons with the intake skirt so heavily worn from ingesting fines that they break and destroy the rest of the engine. I mean it is common sense really. If filtration wasn't critical, why would manufacturers even worry about it in the first place?!

 

[rogue60]

Interesting I still don't get it misdiagnosed saw failures? sounds more like metal to metal contact going on to me maybe 50:1 and fines don't mix?
I've never bothered cleaning filters spotless have even been known to take a filter off if blocked and keep cutting lol yet I've never seen any kind of damages from sawdust fines? In decaded old working saw's what's going on?
Saw manafacters only had to take fines seriously around the time the ms460 came out and the trend of guy's bringing in saw's to the dealer pointing at a sawdust fine on the wrong side of the filter before that saw's lived on sawdust for decades was never a problem.
If this theory about sawdust fines is true this ms880 should be trashed when I pull the cylinder?
Stay tuned for pics of trashed saw to come
over the weekend.
Anyways is all good all IMHO I know some guy's take all this very seriously and stuffs.

 

[CR888]

For over half a century virtually none of the saw OEM's took saw dust fines all that seriously, you can see this in the filter setups. Even today the winter mesh nylon filters let fines go straight through, you'll see them in the intake after only 5mins run time. How the pro saw OEMs see this is far different to the average saw fourm member. Silica, sand/dirt are far worse than wood fines IME.

 

[huskyboy]

If the filter does not matter I guess I should remove it from all my saws no?

 

[rogue60]

If the filter does not matter I guess I should remove it from all my saws no?

That's just being silly lol nothing of value to add? you work on lots of saw's is there any kind of trends to these saws with all this sawdust fine damage apart from dirty air filters for example? As you know we are talking about sawdust fines making it's way passed the filter the filter stops 99% of fines getting through the discussion is does that even matter? personally I've not seen any evidence it does.
Dirt sand yes that will destroy an engine fast but that's a hole other thread different topic all altogether.

 

[angelo c]

I think dull files and heavy fellers kill more saws then "fines" and "mineral oil" do...but what do I know...I make pizza

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

Older tech was “roughly” made, no precision as such, and no particular price point, the best blends of metals, hard as hell surface hardening/finishing.
The older 50s & 60s engines I worked on ate and ran on metal fines, it wasn’t until an oil passage blocked, heat, then failure occurred. Tried to destroy an engine that self oil changed once a week, added all sorts to it. Drained coolant and oil, lasted about 2 weeks, and it seized.
Now with precision and price points for manufacturers, I find more engine damage, more engine failures or worn out bits.
Seen diesels run for 10-15 odd years all OEM, go away for refurb and either fail or wear out within 4.
Not sure this helps the argument, but I can see both sides of coin, I think. Maybe newer saws don’t like wood fines and older saws ain’t too bothered by them? Maybe the 50:1 mix is too lean a mix to lubricate and flush? As we stride towards enviro friendly something’s got to suffer and vice versa.



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[rogue60]

Older tech was “roughly” made, no precision as such, and no particular price point, the best blends of metals, hard as hell surface hardening/finishing.
The older 50s & 60s engines I worked on ate and ran on metal fines, it wasn’t until an oil passage blocked, heat, then failure occurred. Tried to destroy an engine that self oil changed once a week, added all sorts to it. Drained coolant and oil, lasted about 2 weeks, and it seized.
Now with precision and price points for manufacturers, I find more engine damage, more engine failures or worn out bits.
Seen diesels run for 10-15 odd years all OEM, go away for refurb and either fail or wear out within 4.
Not sure this helps the argument, but I can see both sides of coin, I think. Maybe newer saws don’t like wood fines and older saws ain’t too bothered by them? Maybe the 50:1 mix is too lean a mix to lubricate and flush? As we stride towards enviro friendly something’s got to suffer and vice versa.



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I like your theory on lubricate and flush might be something in that? interesting.
If a 661 is a what one would call new saw tec built to precision In my experience they suffer zero effect like the 066/660 from dirty filters and sucking sawdust fines.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

I’m not saying it was just fines on this 362 was way over due for a cleaning. Not just fines but actually a few wood chips may have got some dust to on they dry dusty days working by dirt roads

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

I was told when I was rebuilding an old Mini engine (‘83 era), that once built, fill it with oil, run it in, drain, and keep using the same brand and type, don’t change it (not the used oil). This may be an old wives tales, and most likely is, never seen evidence to back it up, but the old boy said engines don’t like swapping oil, causes seals to change, dirt to cleaned where it is sealing, that type of thing.

Edit:- You mentioned using the same oil from new, sorry I gave no context.


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[Simondo]

Cleaning up my old ms880 last of the cast muffler 88's.
Thought some might find it interesting it's a high hr saw it's done a lot of hard work over the year's it's definitely never been babied.
This saw has only ever been run on the same MINERAL OIL.
It's a myth 2T mineral oil is not a good performing oil in saw's I think there is one other guy on chainsaw forums that also knows this and that's CR888 lol.

Sawdust fines are blamed for just about all damage ever found in a saw the end! Lol from stuck gumed up rings to piston scoring to blown bearings you name it even load side piston skirt wear.
It's a myth sawdust fines do zero damage to a saw engine I have never seen anything bad that could be blamed on fines getting past a filter in a saw's engine or anything posted that would change my mind?.
Most saw engine damage is from a perceived good oil or lack of oil or bad tune or just rubbish build quality in a saw to start with.
All IMHO I don't actually care what guys run in there saw's or how they treat them or blame damage on.

Anyways here's a few pics.

View attachment 222691 View attachment 222692 View attachment 222693 View attachment 222694 View attachment 222695

Hi Bud, hope your ok and have not been troubled with the wild fires !!!
This is not a .."Proof Positive".. for fines killing a motor , just what I sorted out on a Dolmar Ps-9010 saw used for milling.
The saw was running ok and then went out in the cut.
This was the state of the bottom end and the piston when i opened it up.



The crud in the bottom end was a mix of very dry fines and aluminium from the piston .
What I found was that the air filter mount had been put on upside down and then the filter put in place.
This gave a gap open to the carb to pull unfiltered air direct into the intake as well as through the filter.
It can't have helped the saw when milling having that amount of fines getting into the crankcase as they ....seemed...to stick to the oil layer in the bottom end acting like a sponge causing less oil out of the mix to lube things enough.
I pressure and vac tested the saw ....checked the mix was not old and found the settings on the carb to be standard....all checked out ok.
Im "not" saying the fines were the "only" cause of the front end piston damage but may not have helped in a case where more of the fines get in than a working filter could let though.

 

[Sawrain]

For over half a century virtually none of the saw OEM's took saw dust fines all that seriously, you can see this in the filter setups.

This x100, I can’t believe how thoughtless the designs of a number of pro saws were, in regards to filter sealing arrangements.

Many of these (80s+) saws are still usable today, not completely outdated in terms or power/weight, but every time I clean the filter on some saws I think wtf, how can such a fine piece of machinery have such a weekness.

I could not believe it when I found my Solo 662 had an O-ring seal against the carb from the filter, a nice touch.

 

[Finnrpm]

I rather keep the fines outside than in.........

Seen too many times that the small things neglected cause too much trouble in the long run
RV