Monster saw works?

[Mastermind]

Not defending these guys. I have no dog in this. But I see several things going on in those pics. I wouldn't blame it entirely on the port work from what I can see from here. More pics might help but I'm not seeing any jms or iron horse halfassery going on.


Steven

The corners of the exhaust port are really tight, and the roof is very flat.....I can see that hanging a ring.

But....anyone who has ported a two stroke cylinder has built a ring hanger. I know I have.

So, as always, it comes down to how the builder reacts when he is shown these pictures.

Ok....how did that go? @marksman42

 

[Stevetheboatguy]

The corners of the exhaust port are really tight, and the roof is very flat.....I can see that hanging a ring.

But....anyone who has ported a two stroke cylinder has built a ring hanger. I know I have.

So, as always, it comes down to how the builder reacts when he is shown these pictures.

Ok....how did that go? @marksman42

I can kinda see that on the exh port. I guess I'd need a different angle to see it better. But you see it everyday so I trust what you're saying. Always looking to pick up and learn.

I hate it when something goes south but having been on both sides of it. I try to not jump to conclusions.

Steven

 

[CJ Brown]

The corners of the exhaust port are really tight, and the roof is very flat.....I can see that hanging a ring.

But....anyone who has ported a two stroke cylinder has built a ring hanger. I know I have.

So, as always, it comes down to how the builder reacts when he is shown these pictures.

Ok....how did that go? @marksman42

In the one pic the piston is installed backwards and hence the hung ring.

He who has never installed a piston backwards can cast the first stone

 

[huskihl]

In the one pic the piston is installed backwards and hence the hung ring.

He who has never installed a piston backwards can cast the first stone

Which pic? The 462 piston is on correctly. Bottom ring pin is at the front left exhaust corner

 

[Basher]

I don`t know anything about porting but once the intake side of the piston skirt wears in some the piston crown actually tilts/ cocks forward toward the exhaust side so that exhaust port roof needs a good bit of chamfer on a slightly arched shape.

 

[Mastermind]

I don`t know anything about porting but once the intake side of the piston skirt wears in some the piston crown actually tilts/ cocks forward toward the exhaust side so that exhaust port roof needs a good bit of chamfer on a slightly arched shape.

Jerry.....you know more about porting than you let on.

I remember some very detailed posts from years ago that you posted on the 044/046.

 

[marksman42]

The corners of the exhaust port are really tight, and the roof is very flat.....I can see that hanging a ring.

But....anyone who has ported a two stroke cylinder has built a ring hanger. I know I have.

So, as always, it comes down to how the builder reacts when he is shown these pictures.

Ok....how did that go? @marksman42

 

[marksman42]

Rest assured the piston was installed correctly. As far as what this builder is willing to do for my customer is the following:

Apparently this builder is in someway affiliated with a shop in pa by the name of bortz chainsaw shop. The builder says he is willing to re do the port work at no charge, but my customer has to buy the oem cylinder kit . Their kindly offering it to my customer at dealer cost but still my customer feels he’s getting the shaft. He feels he shouldn’t have to pay at all after all the saw has virtually no time on it which seems to be this builders norm ( hanging rings with little to no run time on the saw ) with each saw showing extensive plating damage (peeling/ gouging. )He wants to have the saw rebuilt stock with oem parts but does not trust the quality of their work hence why the saw is with me . I’ve seen a lot of overflow over the last year from this shop this monster work saws is affiliated with, ported as well as stock saws. Some of their repairs are pretty crude ,if this person modifying saws for them is any extension of this shop these failures do not surprise me one bit. Looks to be some outfit that’s been flying under the radar with their sub par work for sometime, catering to a clientele base that knows no better.

 

[CJ Brown]

Which pic? The 462 piston is on correctly. Bottom ring pin is at the front left exhaust corner

To me it looked like the top ring end was to the left of that. Maybe a pin fell out and the ring spun? Or maybe I just have terrible eyesight.

 

[wcorey]

Appears to be fairly neat port work but agree the exhaust looks a bit narrow and squared off in the corners to have much of an arch going on. Some theorize that an abrupt exhaust opening is beneficial performance wise but it certainly can be a major compromise as to the life of a saw. Who knows whether that was the intention here or just lack of understating of the basics...
I can't envision hanging a ring like that to be any fault of the operator, particularly on a low hour saw, that rests entirely on the builder.

 

[Fullkip]

A pro porter would stand behind there work 100%... On a low hour port job.
If the porting was at fault they would buy a new cylinder kit. Especially on a oem one.
It makes a difference if it's after market and or a used bottom end.
It would also depend on how far the customer wanted the wick turned up.
A well done port job should last at least 6 months of pro use if not a year.
I had another 562 go over 700 hrs of pro use.

 

[huskihl]

To me it looked like the top ring end was to the left of that. Maybe a pin fell out and the ring spun? Or maybe I just have terrible eyesight.

I see what you’re saying. It’s hard to tell sometimes when the rings are in pieces like that.

 

[Basher]

Jerry.....you know more about porting than you let on.

I remember some very detailed posts from years ago that you posted on the 044/046.

Now, don`t you go spreading any rumors....LOL

 

[Deets066]

Now, don`t you go spreading any rumors....LOL

You can’t hide forever, lol

 

[drf256]

Ex port has nice chamfers. Hard to tell arch of roof by camera angle. It’s a nice port.

 

[wcorey]

Looking a little closer at the piston, that thing has some serious wear on it...

 

[drf256]

Upon further review of those ex port pics, things make less sense to me.

It looks like it is factory width. The chamfers look factory on the bottom and sides to me, I don’t know of anyone but the oem that carves chamfers that deep because we would all rather have as much area after the opening in the plating as possible. The port looks sanded and polished.

I don’t see how someone could have flattened the factory roof without raising the sides. I see a clean turn and then I do see a flat area with no bevel on the left-again could be camera angle. If they raised the center it would cause more arch and not less.

I agree with Bill, that piston doesn’t look like “Mild use”. The port shape and pitting on the intake side almost looks like the saw sat a long time with moisture in it.

I am just not seeing poor workmanship in this example. Only takes one bad deal to get a bad reputation if you don’t do the right thing.

Would be good to see Monster Saws post their side of this story here. If they do enough saws, even if they are perfectly done, shíts gonna break.

I’m not certain how long the implied warranty should be on a modified saw. I’ve been fairly lucky in my work AFAIC.

 

[Wilhelm]

You'll like it. View attachment 227525

Have someone knowledgeable and reputable take that one apart and we will all know how well Monster Saws are built.

Just saying, everything else is merely guessing.

 

[Mastermind]

I'm genuinely curious about something here fellas. What could possibly cause the damage to the rings in that 390XP that is not related to the port size or shape?

Like I said earlier, I've had this happen on some of my own saws, and everytime I've seen it happen, I didn't see any other reason why it happened aside from the changes I made to the port.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but rings dont just break like that for no reason. Or do they?

I'm not bashing the saw builder in question either. These things will happen regardless of how careful a guy is with his port work. When it happens though...how is it handled? Should blame be assigned to the user, or the builder?

These type of things are opportunities to learn. Every time I saw this in one of my builds, I carefully examined the port, and without fail I found a reason that it hung a ring.

 

[CJ Brown]

Have you ever had any problems with rings? A sharp edge on a ring can reek havoc in a cylinder too.