Lathe questions??

[S&S_Work_Saws]

I'm sorry if this has been covered before but this is the only place I really trust to get this info.
So I'm in the market for a lathe or end mill. I've never operated either and want to start cutting cylinders and other small parts.
My questions are....
for doing cylinders am I going to be better off with a lathe or mill?? I'm assuming a lathe is the way to go.
Next what's the smallest swing I should be looking for to do squish bands and bases?? I'm assuming a 9" swing with a 19" bed is probably about the minimum I'd want to go with a 4 jaw chuck.
Last question is what are some brands I should stay away from entirely when looking at new lathes and tooling??

Thank you in advance for any info you can share on this.

 

[Ketchup]

Lathe before mill. 9” swing, 24” bed minimum. The Harbor Freight machines and similar are pretty bad. But saw work is fairly straightforward machining. Most new machines should handle it without difficulty. But a Lathe is a very useful instrument. I recommend getting the highest quality and heaviest machine you can fit in your shop and budget. There’s a similar recent thread you might want to read…

https://opeforum.com/threads/introduction-and-lathe-question.29832/

 

[Paul Fithian]

Timely thread, thanks for starting this. I've been looking at lathes for a while on CL/Facebook/eBay, lot's of junk out there for sale.

I keep coming back to a new Grizzly 9x19 https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-9-x-19-bench-lathe/g4000 as an option for my first lathe and how to learn to use. It appears long term product support and parts are available from Grizzly. $1,400 delivered

School me on why not to go for this one? Agreed it's not a classic US made South Bend or similar. Lot's of people seem to be satisified with similar Sieg type China made lathes. This Grizzly is almost 300 lbs, about the limit of what I can deal with for my garage.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

Timely thread, thanks for starting this. I've been looking at lathes for a while on CL/Facebook/eBay, lot's of junk out there for sale.

I keep coming back to a new Grizzly 9x19 https://www.grizzly.com/products/grizzly-9-x-19-bench-lathe/g4000 as an option for my first lathe and how to learn to use. It appears long term product support and parts are available from Grizzly. $1,400 delivered

School me on why not to go for this one? Agreed it's not a classic US made South Bend or similar. Lot's of people seem to be satisified with similar Sieg type China made lathes. This Grizzly is almost 300 lbs, about the limit of what I can deal with for my garage.

I also have been looking a lot at the grizzly 9" setup. I live around Rolla, Missouri and have a grizzly about 2 hours away. So no shipping needed. I also have never attempted to operate a lathe before. My little brother who has been a machinist professionally for probably 10 years now and operates a massive lathe everyday has been my go to person for advice about lathes and anything milling related the last couple days. He said the little grizzly would probably make a decent beginner lathe. In fact it's what he first purchase to learn on years ago except in the 12"x36" and he said it did pretty good.... BUT...the grizzly 9" lathe, for me locally anyway, has been on backorder for weeks and shows no sign of being restocked anytime soon. Like most other guys will probably say also, he reccomended skipping the 9" lathe all together and finding an old America made lathe and the biggest one I could afford or fit in my shop. His logic obviously being you can cut small piece on a big lathe but can't very well cut huge pieces of work on a tiny lathe. The next thing mentioned was when purchasing an older machine was to make sure the bed and ways weren't worn completely out. Usually older machines come with a bunch of tooling also that the grizzly won't come with. At a minimum a 4 jaw independent chuck, some tool holders and boring bar.
Also if purchasing a newer cheap lathe the Taiwanese offerings apparently are a lot more precise and better built then the Chinese made models. That's his general consensus anyway.

As I'm trying to run down a solid used piece I'm running into a couple issues. I have found there is no kellybluebook of values for old milling equipment. One guy might want $1k for a machine and another guy might think his exact same machine is worth $5k. Very difficult to know what anything is really worth in a market like that.
Next issue is trying to physically relocate anything bigger then a bench top model is going to require a skid steer or fork lift for loading and unloading and moving into my shop. This isn't a huge concern for me as I have access to a skidsteer but none the less still a pain in the a$$.
And lastly I'm running into ALOT of 3 phase setups. In a residential setting in my area getting 3 phase up and running isn't an easy or cheap task at all and I have to factor in that cost when trying to purchase a lathe that is 3 phase.

Anyway, just some advice I have been given thus far on the subject and what I've encountered so far on my journey to become a lathe owner and operator.

 

[Paul Fithian]

Good info, similar to what I’ve learned in my search

Check this thread also: https://opeforum.com/threads/lathes.14434/ , several fellas there are successfully using these 9x20 lathes for chainsaw work

I put an order in for that G4000 9x19, I’m OK if it takes a few months. It appears to be a very good deal right now, $1.195 vs “normal” price of $1,725, 30% off


I also plan to acquire one of these LMS tooling packages for it to get started: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3786&category=

 

[legdelimber]

The 2.25" long boring bar may be a little short in that kit.
What length do you guys find it takes in order to clear the fixture and reach the combustion chamber?
Depends on the cylinder of course but what do y'all find gives a little room to change angles a bit if needed and not be scraping the tool holder or dragging chips etc.

Oh and any favorite methods of reducing chatter. Thicker boring bar or tool cutting nose radius, etc.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

Good info, similar to what I’ve learned in my search

Check this thread also: https://opeforum.com/threads/lathes.14434/ , several fellas there are successfully using these 9x20 lathes for chainsaw work

I put an order in for that G4000 9x19, I’m OK if it takes a few months. It appears to be a very good deal right now, $1.195 vs “normal” price of $1,725, 30% off
View attachment 404846

I also plan to acquire one of these LMS tooling packages for it to get started: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3786&category=

Congratulations man!! I'm ready to pick one up also but I'm not in a huge rush either. I figure when the time is right, all the tumblers will line up and it'll all work out.
Let me know what you think of the grizzly once you recieve it and get some run time with it. I may still go that route. I just hate the thought of being on back order and tying up my money for possibly weeks or months.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

The 2.25" long boring bar may be a little short in that kit.
What length do you guys find it takes in order to clear the fixture and reach the combustion chamber?
Depends on the cylinder of course but what do y'all find gives a little room to change angles a bit if needed and not be scraping the tool holder or dragging chips etc.

Oh and any favorite methods of reducing chatter. Thicker boring bar or tool cutting nose radius, etc.

Curious about this also. I have no idea what length it would take to cut a squish band but common sense would make me think the longer the boring bar the higher the chance for it to start chattering making the cut.
I've often wondered if it would be easier to cut the base with an upright end mill. The squish band the lather makes sense. If a cylinder, like most older stihls, didn't have the sleeve or spigot extending past the base I would think it would be easier to stand it up in a mill and machine it that way. Again I'm no expert and am just starting to get involved in the machining aspect of all of this.

 

[blades]

not having 3 phase isn't that big deal anymore with the advent of VFD ( Variable frequncy drives )units. 220 1ph in, 3ph 220 out. bonus= variable speed. There are fixed units also cheaper. just need to size for horse power + about 1.5 like a 1.5hp mill use a 3hp VHD. there also static converters and rotary converters but they get pricy. I have used all 3 types over the years much prefer the VFD units.

 

[BuffaloBill]

I second the VFD vote. VFDs also offer controlled acceleration/deceleration rates, preventing large inrush currents and the harsh banging of gear lash. They can produce useable torque at really low rpm, handy for tapping. You can wire up a jog button for positioning of the chuck, etc.

 

[Paul Fithian]

Continued delays from Grizzly for a G4000. Changed the order to a G0602 10x22, showed up yesterday:

 

[beaglebriar]

Continued delays from Grizzly for a G4000. Changed the order to a G0602 10x22, showed up yesterday:
View attachment 415928

You won’t regret it. It’s a nice little machine.

 

[Al Smith]

Couple of things .Besides a VFD drive a rotary phase convertor is not that difficult to make .Depending on the location older lathes come up for sale such as Southbend ,Atlas etc .These often come with a lot of tooling, chucks and often for a reasonable price .If you don't know much about the machine take somebody with you who does . I personally would not consider a table top model but rather a more robust floor model which will heavy .
A milling machine is another thing .The best IMO would be Bridgeport but doing small engine work more difficult to get the desired job done with any amount of ease .However nothing is impossible .

 

[Junk Meister]

Couple of things .Besides a VFD drive a rotary phase convertor is not that difficult to make .Depending on the location older lathes come up for sale such as Southbend ,Atlas etc .These often come with a lot of tooling, chucks and often for a reasonable price .If you don't know much about the machine take somebody with you who does . I personally would not consider a table top model but rather a more robust floor model which will heavy .
A milling machine is another thing .The best IMO would be Bridgeport but doing small engine work more difficult to get the desired job done with any amount of ease .However nothing is impossible .

My brother ended up with the Warner-Swasey 4A I bought years ago. He mostly uses it to grind flywheels.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

Good info, similar to what I’ve learned in my search

Check this thread also: https://opeforum.com/threads/lathes.14434/ , several fellas there are successfully using these 9x20 lathes for chainsaw work

I put an order in for that G4000 9x19, I’m OK if it takes a few months. It appears to be a very good deal right now, $1.195 vs “normal” price of $1,725, 30% off
View attachment 404846

I also plan to acquire one of these LMS tooling packages for it to get started: https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3786&category=

I ended up finding a Jet BD-920N that came with a BUNCH or tooling and extra chucks locally for $1k. It's the same machine as the G4000 just in white instead of green. I've been pretty happy with it thus far. I'm able to cut squish bands and cylinder bases pretty easily. The first few took me a long time to get setup. It's already been very handy in making some random parts I needed around my place. I can already see that within the next couple of years I'll be selling this and looking for a bigger machine. This machine has been excellent for learning on though.

 

[Paul Fithian]

I looked for a deal like that for 6 months, nothing showed up, which is why I decided to go new.

One local seller wanted $2,000 for a 20 year old Chinese Enco 9x20 with drawers of junk files, broken dial indicators, etc. Another seller wanted more for a 5 year old G0602 10x22 than new one delivered from Grizzly

 

[Al Smith]

I might point out to the question of carbine tooling .Refering to the pic of the monarch 10" EE look at the shelf behind it .I've made probabley 20-25 V notch slides to fit the Aloris type post holder .I've altered old out dated type of tools,with the holders which I adopted for this machine and have literally thousands of carbide inserts .It's just a thing of being at the right place at the right time .
None of these things cost me a dime .However I've seen a lot of these things sell for a dime on the dollar at auctions .The simple fact being most people are unable to think outside the box .For example the one pic shows a short boring bar that in production use was used to bore out piston pin holes in automotive pistons but by not using the second insert works great for boring out cylinders .The second insert was used to cut a chamfer in the pin hole cut on CNC machinery with a tollerence measured in micrometers .

 

[Al Smith]

As a teenager I thought I wanted to be a tool and die maker .However I ended up as an electrician and
the machining just became an interest or perhaps just a hobby which I'm basically self taught .I can do just about everything a tool maker can do it just takes me longer to think through it .

 

[Paul Fithian]

Work continues to get this new G0602 set up.

Lot's of cleaning needed on one of these. I'm stripping down cross slide and compound, cleaning every part in solvent, and putting back them back together without the sand & grit that came with them from the factory

DRO display and lengthwise scale installed:

 

[Al Smith]

This Grizzly is almost 300 lbs, about the limit of what I can deal with for my garage.

I noticed this and to reply the Monarch 10" EE in the pic I submitted tips the scales at around 3,600 pounds .My larger lathe ,a pre 1920 Boye and Emmes 20 by 48" is about twice as heavy. In addtion to that I was gifted an American Hole Wizard 10" column radial drill press I would guess at around 3 tons .Needless to say all my stuff is heavy duty industrial .
What happened was during the recessionary period of that time ,1980's little job shops closed by the dozen .More auctions than you could shake a stick at .US News and World Report labeled this area of Ohio as an industrial waste land and dubbed it the "rust belt "As a result good machinery and tooling sold for about scrape metal price . 45-50 years have passed and it has not recovered yet .--more--