Have gone from crap to eth-free blends to pre-mix....hoping to learn a lil more about fuels

[huskihl]

RedBull did a canned fuel test here a few months ago. Maybe someone can chime in with the link to the video

 

[huskyhank]

I would run any high octane non-ethanol gas with good 2 stroke oil. Do not add anything else. Just keep fresh mix in your can and you will be good. Same fuel in all the 2 stroke tools.

 

[legdelimber]

Cerberus. Some days Google works and other times it seems to fight me. First couple links to the HEET MSDS
were useless. Lots of companys like to use the word Proprietary rather than to list the ingredients.
Sometimes You just get stuck clicking a few extra links to find the answer. Kinda funny & annoying that it was only in the Home Depot link, aint it?
I think it was the midway down the search page.
Sometimes I seem to hit a bad search and only find bogus links that are just key word spam inside of a fake listing.

 

[mdavlee]

[Only time to get halfway caught-up here but damn that's a lot of great info can't thank you guys enough!!! ]


How do you choose your oil%? I've got a 2nd-hand saw whose manual is saying 25:1 to 50:1 and I've zero clue how to determine 'optimal', am not anal and looking to get it to the % but would like to know what would sway someone towards 50:1 opposed to 25:1..



Thanks!! How did you grab that so easily? Would love to see the same for regular HEET, I'd been using that and switched-to ISO-HEET.... Anyway lol why on earth add 0.02% xylene or toulene? Am betting pure isopropyl would have to be labelled as such in fact I vaguely recall an analogous case with boric acid//insecticides, gotta say I'm now thinking to just add some regular 90% isopropyl lol, the product was initially reco'd to me for my truck and had helped so I became a religious user, I think it makes sense if the isopropyl evaps and 'fills' the air-portion of the container thus preventing the fuel itself from evaporation (which *is* occurring in your gas can right now and degrading your gas) Guess splashing some isopropyl alcohol into the can of fuel would have same effect, going to have to google to find someone who's done this and worked out a hard rate to use (iso///petrol, or maybe it's iso///container-volume) but at any rate thanks a ton for finding that am very happy you found this thread


Why 4-cycle fuel? And would like to know what's meant by 'add some mineral oil to fog the bearings' (adding mineral oil...applied where, fogging what bearings?)
And Re "get 40:1 trufuel and be done with it" I dunno I mean that's basically where I'm at an am not looking to change much but as mentioned my larger climb saw doesn't even have a hard-# for oil% it's "25:1---->50:1", and it gets subjected to "one extreme" of use-case ie it's used for long runs at a time and pushed hard and it's done in a hot humid environment, surely that's gotta influence if 40:1, or 50:1, is the better choice for this "25--->50:1" saw (am not BS'ing / playing devil's advocate it's a Tanaka tcs33edtp I can screenshot my pdf of the service manual to show this if doubted!! I'm betting there was a sticker w/ a reco on it at one point but it was broken&bar-less when I took possession of it..


Re compromised fuel from those moronically-unsealed cans, yeah that had crossed my mind holy crap you are so right, I'd even joked about it to my brother when buying some the other day (about how it's honor-system essentially I mean it's open containers that we're feeding to our saws here) so honestly just hearing an anecdote is enough that I'm now thinking "just buy a case at a time"....would F'ing LOVE to find if anyone's ever actually done a comparative analysis of the various canned mixtures I mean Husqvarna's 95oct is like 70% more expensive than SEF(92oct from walmart) and I couldn't even tell you for sure that higher octane is of *any* value to me, have no idea if husq fuel is far better, same, inferior am only able to guess based on branding&price.. (thnx for nomenclature help btw it's greatly appreciated am sure it's obvious but I'm still quite green ;P )

40:1 is more oil which protects better. If that’s what you’re running it’s a good ratio. I prefer 32:1 to be 4 oz a gallon. Mineral or Dino oil is better for storage if you just mix up a small cup and drain the other and run it for a minute and shut it off. Some of these high grade ester based oils attract water and can rust your bearings after months of sitting.

 

[Cerberus]

40:1 is more oil which protects better. If that’s what you’re running it’s a good ratio. I prefer 32:1 to be 4 oz a gallon. Mineral or Dino oil is better for storage if you just mix up a small cup and drain the other and run it for a minute and shut it off. Some of these high grade ester based oils attract water and can rust your bearings after months of sitting.

But how do you determine what's best, %-wise? I know 50:1 is too precise to be an optimal, I hear things like what you mention Re more oil = "protects better" but there's gotta be an upper (and lower) %-limit, would be cool to see oil%'s as ranges for instance I'm on my ~5th tank of fuel on my new 355t and had started it on 40:1 motomix w/ HP Ultra, then switched to 45:1 Echo Red for a couple tanks and am now just topping-off w/ 50:1 Red so it'll get to 50:1 by another couple top-off's....Whether it's 47:1, or 58:1, I wanna run what's optimal and I know it's not 50.0:1.000 but I don't know how to begin to make an informed decision (hence heading back to 50:1 on my new saw after first tankfuls, I'd only done the heavier oil %'s because I'd read of others doing that during initial break-in when you're first running it)

Re usage though, my saws never sit / gas doesn't get old, have never found a need to buy Stabil. I *am* still using all canned fuel, Tru-Fuel mostly, after reading replies here I'm getting the same impression I get elsewhere- "Pump-gas would be A-OK if it weren't for that ethanol in it" but after learning of pump-gas's aromatics & polyolefins it's like "great, no ethanol, still 2 major classes - in huge concentrations - that we don't want"... Motomix is the only one I know that claims to be a true/pure alkylate fuel (and I believe they use sythetic lube in Moto- I couldn't help notice you delineate the two- would love any elaboration/insight here, from my point of view the price-difference is so small I'd just get whatever's best for short-term performance, if I'm ever going to store something I'll use Moto, what I'm aiming for is best bang-for-buck on canned fuel, just because regular fuel doesn't kill machines doesn't mean said machines are running optimal (would be nice to know the difference in energy-potential between a unit of pump-gas versus a unit of Moto/pure alkylate) Was also hoping to find something like this next reply:

RedBull did a canned fuel test here a few months ago. Maybe someone can chime in with the link to the video

Thanks will look for that now, Stihl's Motomix is only one I know that claims 100% pure alkylate fuel, and it's at a steep premium over Echo & Husq fuels.... I know it's probably over-paying for the name but I do intend to continue getting Echo's cans just for my new 355t, like the idea of always giving it Echo's fuel lol but hoping to find TruFuel or Small Engine Fuel ($5/can stuff) is FAR closer to Moto than an eth-free pump!

I would run any high octane non-ethanol gas with good 2 stroke oil. Do not add anything else. Just keep fresh mix in your can and you will be good. Same fuel in all the 2 stroke tools.

I worked for a guy for half a decade and we'd just open his Ryobi's tank and pour-in some gas, eye-ball some motor oil into it and cap&shake and use it...it "works", no doubt, but work /= optimal, I mean heck you can generate more power simply by tuning a saw properly so of course if your fuel has more "bang-per-volume" you can have a more powerful saw (just like you get when using compressed air into the air-intake on a boosted car, you're creating more boom per stroke)
Most of my saws are top-handled, speed-of-cut and power//weight are basically all that matters, so am not looking for "okay"/"works" when a little bit of knowledge on this would let me run my gear far more-optimally! I know I noticed a difference in all my gear when going eth-free (I did a real step-wise intro of canned fuels so wasn't something I was able to evaluate....would really love to get a hard-# comparison on energy-potential difference between an ounce of Motomix and an ounce of pump-fuel, because for me the desire for canned is one of both performance and cleaner/happier engines, if Motomix is *barely* making any more power - and is only keeping things cleaner - I think I would go back to eth-free pump gas and just plan that saws will need carbs more often

 

[Al Smith]

Wow a lot of opinions ,typical oil war .

 

[huskihl]

But how do you determine what's best, %-wise? I know 50:1 is too precise to be an optimal, I hear things like what you mention Re more oil = "protects better" but there's gotta be an upper (and lower) %-limit, would be cool to see oil%'s as ranges for instance I'm on my ~5th tank of fuel on my new 355t and had started it on 40:1 motomix w/ HP Ultra, then switched to 45:1 Echo Red for a couple tanks and am now just topping-off w/ 50:1 Red so it'll get to 50:1 by another couple top-off's....Whether it's 47:1, or 58:1, I wanna run what's optimal and I know it's not 50.0:1.000 but I don't know how to begin to make an informed decision (hence heading back to 50:1 on my new saw after first tankfuls, I'd only done the heavier oil %'s because I'd read of others doing that during initial break-in when you're first running it)

Re usage though, my saws never sit / gas doesn't get old, have never found a need to buy Stabil. I *am* still using all canned fuel, Tru-Fuel mostly, after reading replies here I'm getting the same impression I get elsewhere- "Pump-gas would be A-OK if it weren't for that ethanol in it" but after learning of pump-gas's aromatics & polyolefins it's like "great, no ethanol, still 2 major classes - in huge concentrations - that we don't want"... Motomix is the only one I know that claims to be a true/pure alkylate fuel (and I believe they use sythetic lube in Moto- I couldn't help notice you delineate the two- would love any elaboration/insight here, from my point of view the price-difference is so small I'd just get whatever's best for short-term performance, if I'm ever going to store something I'll use Moto, what I'm aiming for is best bang-for-buck on canned fuel, just because regular fuel doesn't kill machines doesn't mean said machines are running optimal (would be nice to know the difference in energy-potential between a unit of pump-gas versus a unit of Moto/pure alkylate) Was also hoping to find something like this next reply:


Thanks will look for that now, Stihl's Motomix is only one I know that claims 100% pure alkylate fuel, and it's at a steep premium over Echo & Husq fuels.... I know it's probably over-paying for the name but I do intend to continue getting Echo's cans just for my new 355t, like the idea of always giving it Echo's fuel lol but hoping to find TruFuel or Small Engine Fuel ($5/can stuff) is FAR closer to Moto than an eth-free pump!


I worked for a guy for half a decade and we'd just open his Ryobi's tank and pour-in some gas, eye-ball some motor oil into it and cap&shake and use it...it "works", no doubt, but work /= optimal, I mean heck you can generate more power simply by tuning a saw properly so of course if your fuel has more "bang-per-volume" you can have a more powerful saw (just like you get when using compressed air into the air-intake on a boosted car, you're creating more boom per stroke)
Most of my saws are top-handled, speed-of-cut and power//weight are basically all that matters, so am not looking for "okay"/"works" when a little bit of knowledge on this would let me run my gear far more-optimally! I know I noticed a difference in all my gear when going eth-free (I did a real step-wise intro of canned fuels so wasn't something I was able to evaluate....would really love to get a hard-# comparison on energy-potential difference between an ounce of Motomix and an ounce of pump-fuel, because for me the desire for canned is one of both performance and cleaner/happier engines, if Motomix is *barely* making any more power - and is only keeping things cleaner - I think I would go back to eth-free pump gas and just plan that saws will need carbs more often

If you use your ope often and they don’t sit months at a time, I doubt 10% ethanol will hurt anything. It seems to do its damage during storage. I use efree from the pump because it’s available here.

As far as what’s optimal, there have been tests showing increases in power down to 18:1. But somewhere between 30 and 50:1 has shown to be sufficient in saws and not leave spooge all over the muffler.

 

[Wood Duck]

I would run any high octane non-ethanol gas with good 2 stroke oil. Do not add anything else. Just keep fresh mix in your can and you will be good. Same fuel in all the 2 stroke tools.

THIS! As far as which oil, and what ratio, I'll refer you to a little thread on here named: "What oil is best? and what ratio?"
860 pages of information to sift through. I've read through a lot of it in the past year myself. Some good info in there. Good luck!

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I really hate it when


Someone shouts very loud......


When were not deaf.. or even asleep.
So please refrain from shouting out loud. you c##t. As brewz followers would say.







edited to be not so rude, see latter post

 

[Wood Duck]

I really hate it when


Someone shouts very loud......


When were not deaf.. or even asleep.
So please refrain from shouting out loud. you Dall. As brewz followers would say.

Oops! Fixed it. Good call WD, I copy and pasted the title from the thread page. Didn't notice it posted that way until you pointed it out. My bad bro.

 

[angelo c]

If you use your ope often and they don’t sit months at a time, I doubt 10% ethanol will hurt anything. It seems to do its damage during storage. I use efree from the pump because it’s available here.

As far as what’s optimal, there have been tests showing increases in power down to 18:1. But somewhere between 30 and 50:1 has shown to be sufficient in saws and not leave spooge all over the muffler.

Ot also matters "where" you store your OPE as well. My stuff is in my basement and bone dry as well as consistent temps. Cheap a55 crappy pump gas dont go bad on me for years. Rarely lose rubbers too.

 

[rogue60]

I really hate it when


Someone shouts very loud......


When were not deaf.. or even asleep.
So please refrain from shouting out loud. you Dall. As brewz followers would say.

Kind of out of context calling someone you don't know Dall would result in violence down here.
To start a fight here all you need to say to someone's face is ya want a go Dall!
If you know them good (mate's) it's ok to call them a useless Dall lol
Not a word you just throw around and if said with a women present you better be ready for a slap in the face.

 

[Nathan lassley]

Ot also matters "where" you store your OPE as well. My stuff is in my basement and bone dry as well as consistent temps. Cheap a55 crappy pump gas dont go bad on me for years. Rarely lose rubbers too.

Same here, I keep my fuel cans in our pump house because it only gets to about 70 in there on a warm day and it stays dark inside, sunlight will cause ethanol fuel to go stale and if you don't have a good sealed container it may get some water in it. Shouldn't be using a leaky fuel can no matter what fuel you run.

 

[Piston Skirt]

.... 25cc, a "Scheppach CSP2540" (ebay/amazon 'clone'/similar-to echo 2511t)...

That, and nearly all 25cc chinese clones originates from Zenoah 2500, which also was re-packed into Husqvarna T425 plastics

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Yeh, your correct @rogue60 ... I’d had a few beers.. and read the thread. I just though it was a bit rude to shout so to speak. So I replied.. problably not in the best way, even though it was just meant with humour. . and was referring to a bit of banter between brewz and some others.
However...I’m sorry @Wood Duck if I offended you, it was not ment in that way.

so please accept my apologies

 

[rogue60]

Yeh, your correct @rogue60 ... I’d had a few beers.. and read the thread. I just though it was a bit rude to shout so to speak. So I replied.. problably not in the best way, even though it was just meant with humour. . and was referring to a bit of banter between brewz and some others.
However...I’m sorry @Wood Duck if I offended you, it was not ment in that way.

so please accept my apologies

Is all good I knew you never meant anything disrespectful by it.
I was just letting you know what it actually means used in the right or wrong context.

 

[Al Smith]

A big ado it is and never ending .However if anybody has taken notice things like OEM Stihl replacement crankshaft seals have a bluish color to them now of days .These plus the newer carb rebuild kits use a a mylar type of material for things like the fuel pump check valves .Add in major automotive engines have used a different formulation for the 0-ring seals for fuel injectors .The blended ethanol gasoline is not going to go away any time soon,might as well face the facts and deal with it .
You could of course buy aviation fuel or marine gasoline or buy that high priced premixed stuff that costs as much much as bonded whiskey .It's not like the newer gasoline is going to degrade the seals and carbs in a season .It's not like a chainsaw is a fully restored Vincent/HRD Black Shadow or a 1927 Rolls Royce .

 

[Cerberus]

As far as what’s optimal, there have been tests showing increases in power down to 18:1. But somewhere between 30 and 50:1 has shown to be sufficient in saws and not leave spooge all over the muffler.

Wait wait -- how does more oil increase power? I thought leaner, IE like 55:1 or 60:1, would be more powerful (am still re-reading your post and thinking you mistyped but the followup with a 30-->50:1 range recommendation leaves me confused) Thought the optimal would be as little oil as-is-necessary not to seize the engine. Then it'd be the highest 'bang per ounce' from the petrol...then air density (ie 02/volume) Saying higher oil% boosts power, in a 2-stroke's fuel mixture, isn't hitting my ears right..

 

[huskihl]

Wait wait -- how does more oil increase power? I thought leaner, IE like 55:1 or 60:1, would be more powerful (am still re-reading your post and thinking you mistyped but the followup with a 30-->50:1 range recommendation leaves me confused) Thought the optimal would be as little oil as-is-necessary not to seize the engine. Then it'd be the highest 'bang per ounce' from the petrol...then air density (ie 02/volume) Saying higher oil% boosts power, in a 2-stroke's fuel mixture, isn't hitting my ears right..

More oil provides better ring seal resulting in more compression and also provides better lubrication.
Leaner ratios are a product of the epa, nothing more

 

[huskihl]

Wait wait -- how does more oil increase power? I thought leaner, IE like 55:1 or 60:1, would be more powerful (am still re-reading your post and thinking you mistyped but the followup with a 30-->50:1 range recommendation leaves me confused) Thought the optimal would be as little oil as-is-necessary not to seize the engine. Then it'd be the highest 'bang per ounce' from the petrol...then air density (ie 02/volume) Saying higher oil% boosts power, in a 2-stroke's fuel mixture, isn't hitting my ears right..

You still need 14.6 parts of air for every part of gas. So you open the screws to let more mix in