Gun range 2022,2023,2024,2025

[FergusonTO35]

I’m a Sig fan and have 5 of them, but the 320/ M17/ M18 are garbage. I would never carry one. Way too many cases where they have gone off in a holster.

This guy explains some of the report:

I read the report pretty thoroughly. It looks like a combination of tolerance stacking, ordinary wear, minor dimensional differences of mass produced parts, and the usual jostling around of a police pistol result in unintended discharges. The report says that the gun in question was an M18 but the gun in the photos is a P320 with X series grip and trigger and no manual safety. I wonder how the actual M17 or M18 with manual safety would have fared, and if the military has experienced this problem.

 

[farminkarman]

I read the report pretty thoroughly. It looks like a combination of tolerance stacking, ordinary wear, minor dimensional differences of mass produced parts, and the usual jostling around of a police pistol result in unintended discharges. The report says that the gun in question was an M18 but the gun in the photos is a P320 with X series grip and trigger and no manual safety. I wonder how the actual M17 or M18 with manual safety would have fared, and if the military has experienced this problem.

The military has had issues.

 

[Czed]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo-inc-jesse-james-tml-115-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-9mm-ammo-20-box-9115jhpa20.html

I like this stuff I shot about 500 rounds
It's hotter than most 9mm I have.
It's been accurate and reliable no issues at all.

 

[Mastermind]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo-inc-jesse-james-tml-115-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-9mm-ammo-20-box-9115jhpa20.html

View attachment 464927
I like this stuff I shot about 500 rounds
It's hotter than most 9mm I have.
It's been accurate and reliable no issues at all.

The Bubba just bought a chit load of that same ammo. Good to know it ain't garbage.

 

[Freak007]

Caliber? Action? Barrel? Can?

Try not to judge too harshly, this is a project that was started before semi-custom actions like the Solas and Zermatt/Bighorn were easily available. And, it was supposed to be a "budget" build... If you add up prices, please don't tell my wife.

Old-school Savage 110 (pre-accutrigger) action, trued but not timed.
Nat Lambert bolt lift kit
Glades "tactical" bolt handle
Sharpshooter trigger (by far best available for a Savage, but NLA) set to 1.5lb
X-Caliber light varmint barrel, 26", 1:8 twist 5r, 7mm Rem Mag
Choate Super Sniper stock (because it is a LA, Savage, and wrong-handed, options are VERY limited)
Harris bipod
Murphy Precision 20moa base
Vortex Precision rings
Athlon Ares ETR UHD 4.5-30x56
Aadland caps
Liberty Precision Machine Mach S
Rearden SPB mount

If I was to do it all over again, I would definitely use a Zermatt action. Just the availability of options for the R700 footprint alone is huge.

 

[Freak007]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo-inc-jesse-james-tml-115-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-9mm-ammo-20-box-9115jhpa20.html

View attachment 464927
I like this stuff I shot about 500 rounds
It's hotter than most 9mm I have.
It's been accurate and reliable no issues at all.

$30/100 is a killer deal. Any experience sending it through a can? I know there have been rumors in the 5.56 world of jacket separation causing baffle strikes...

 

[pbillyi69]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo-inc-jesse-james-tml-115-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-9mm-ammo-20-box-9115jhpa20.html

View attachment 464927
I like this stuff I shot about 500 rounds
It's hotter than most 9mm I have.
It's been accurate and reliable no issues at all.

i have seen so many mixed reviews. but its the internet so only about a third of what you read is good info. thats a pretty good price.

 

[dieselfitter]

https://palmettostatearmory.com/ammo-inc-jesse-james-tml-115-gr-jacketed-hollow-point-9mm-ammo-20-box-9115jhpa20.html

View attachment 464927
I like this stuff I shot about 500 rounds
It's hotter than most 9mm I have.
It's been accurate and reliable no issues at all.

I was at local indoor range with a friend. He was shooting ammo inc in his 357 revolver. I heard a "thunk" instead of bang. I caught and stopped him before he tried another shot. The ammo inc had a squib. We cleared the bullet with an alyminum rod. He tried that ammo again a week later. There were no less than 3 squibs in that box of ammo. After the 3 squib, he gave the remainder of the box back to the lgs he had bought it at. They didn't seem the least bit surprised to hear that there were 3 squibs in the one box. I won't try shooting Ammo Inc anytime soon. That *s-word could've killed him.

 

[Mastermind]

I was at local indoor range with a friend. He was shooting ammo inc in his 357 revolver. I heard a "thunk" instead of bang. I caught and stopped him before he tried another shot. The ammo inc had a squib. We cleared the bullet with an alyminum rod. He tried that ammo again a week later. There were no less than 3 squibs in that box of ammo. After the 3 squib, he gave the remainder of the box back to the lgs he had bought it at. They didn't seem the least bit surprised to hear that there were 3 squibs in the one box. I won't try shooting Ammo Inc anytime soon. That *s-word could've killed him.

Oh boy.

 

[Freak007]

I was at local indoor range with a friend. He was shooting ammo inc in his 357 revolver. I heard a "thunk" instead of bang. I caught and stopped him before he tried another shot. The ammo inc had a squib. We cleared the bullet with an alyminum rod. He tried that ammo again a week later. There were no less than 3 squibs in that box of ammo. After the 3 squib, he gave the remainder of the box back to the lgs he had bought it at. They didn't seem the least bit surprised to hear that there were 3 squibs in the one box. I won't try shooting Ammo Inc anytime soon. That *s-word could've killed him.

Noted.

 

[Czed]

I was at local indoor range with a friend. He was shooting ammo inc in his 357 revolver. I heard a "thunk" instead of bang. I caught and stopped him before he tried another shot. The ammo inc had a squib. We cleared the bullet with an alyminum rod. He tried that ammo again a week later. There were no less than 3 squibs in that box of ammo. After the 3 squib, he gave the remainder of the box back to the lgs he had bought it at. They didn't seem the least bit surprised to hear that there were 3 squibs in the one box. I won't try shooting Ammo Inc anytime soon. That *s-word could've killed him.

I ran over 400 near 500 of the ammo inc 9mm 115gr jhp only
No other calibers if there was any issues I wouldn't have bought more
I bought that last batch 2 years ago hopefully they still have their *s-word together.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Try not to judge too harshly, this is a project that was started before semi-custom actions like the Solas and Zermatt/Bighorn were easily available. And, it was supposed to be a "budget" build... If you add up prices, please don't tell my wife.

Old-school Savage 110 (pre-accutrigger) action, trued but not timed.
Nat Lambert bolt lift kit
Glades "tactical" bolt handle
Sharpshooter trigger (by far best available for a Savage, but NLA) set to 1.5lb
X-Caliber light varmint barrel, 26", 1:8 twist 5r, 7mm Rem Mag
Choate Super Sniper stock (because it is a LA, Savage, and wrong-handed, options are VERY limited)
Harris bipod
Murphy Precision 20moa base
Vortex Precision rings
Athlon Ares ETR UHD 4.5-30x56
Aadland caps
Liberty Precision Machine Mach S
Rearden SPB mount

If I was to do it all over again, I would definitely use a Zermatt action. Just the availability of options for the R700 footprint alone is huge.

No judgement here, I'm sure it will out shoot anything I got!

 

[Freak007]

No judgement here, I'm sure it will out shoot anything I got!

It does okay for a hunting rifle. The best I've managed was 10 rounds into 7.5" at 1000yds, but 10-12" is more typical. It could probably do better if I could tighten up the nut on the buttstock.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I ran over 400 near 500 of the ammo inc 9mm 115gr jhp only
No other calibers if there was any issues I wouldn't have bought more
I bought that last batch 2 years ago hopefully they still have their *s-word together.

I would bet that particular load uses Hornady XTP bullets, which are excellent. We used to sell bunches of their 9mm and 5.56 at the shop I used to work at and never had any complaints. I don't know about the .357, I don't recall us every getting any from that maker.

 

[Freak007]

I wonder how the actual M17 or M18 with manual safety would have fared, and if the military has experienced this problem.

Wonder no more...

Sig M18 Pistols Pulled From Use By Air Force Global Strike Command

A fatal incident prompted the order to pause M18 use, which also comes after the disclosure of a concerning FBI report that Sig has pushed back on.

www.twz.com

As a general statement, I like Sig. I love my P365. I would not buy a P320.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Oh my....

 

[Freak007]

Oh my....

Multiple LE agencies say there is an issue
FBI says there is an issue
The military says there is an issue

Sig says it is an operator issue....

Makes me think of Keymo all over; if your product has a multitude of failures that are all "caused by the operator", your product is too difficult for trained individuals to use correctly. You have an engineering issue.

 

[Czed]

Wonder no more...

Sig M18 Pistols Pulled From Use By Air Force Global Strike Command

A fatal incident prompted the order to pause M18 use, which also comes after the disclosure of a concerning FBI report that Sig has pushed back on.

www.twz.com

As a general statement, I like Sig. I love my P365. I would not buy a P320.

I really wonder what the future will be with the 320s
If they are failing from new as they age there will have to be more shootings

I remember that around 2 dozen people were killed and a lot of injuries with defective remington 700s
They updated and corrected the issue.
Sig doesn't do that they'll quietly change a product line with improvements
Like the early 365s were problematic but are excellent now.
The 320 was a top seller for year's anything the military has civilians want it.
It seems like they would come out with a definitive fix for them but maybe it's not possible with that design.

 

[Czed]

My next purchase
M&P 22x 20rnd .22lr
I'm a huge fan of the 2.0 trigger's all of mine are excellent
If it's even near the reliability and accuracy of my
Taurus tx .22s I'll be happy
I really like ege m&p .22 mag but too pricey to shoot.

 

[Freak007]

I really wonder what the future will be with the 320s
If they are failing from new as they age there will have to be more shootings
I remember that around 2 dozen people were killed and a lot of injuries with defective remington 700s
They updated and corrected the issue.
Sig doesn't do that they'll quietly change a product line with improvements
Like the early 365s were problematic but are excellent now.
The 320 was a top seller for year's anything the military has civilians want it.
It seems like they would come out with a definitive fix for them but maybe it's not possible with that design.

Thankfully, the issue with the P365 was a reliability issue which "isn't a safety issue." A concept I disagree with, especially in the case of a compact 9mm... A "simple" striker redesign had them back on track.

A big difference is that in the case of the Remington, they did (eventually) acknowledge the issue, and took steps to fix it. It took them nearly 10 years to admit there was a problem, and it was only that XD trigger, which was never used by Gov contracts, so a change only affected the civilian markets.

In the case of the P320, admitting an issue will result in lawsuits, and likely loss of a $580M contract. Any significant change to the design coild result in the loss of a $580M contract. If they deny the issue, and can force the military to break the contract instead, it could benefit them... I feel like they are trying to work behind the scenes for a fix, without admitting any fault, but in the mean time they are also trying to fill their contract so they can get paid...

The M9 was trash, but that was mostly due to being worn out and in serious need of competent maintenance. At least I never had to worry about my M9 going off without my input.