EDTA Decarbonizing

[Turd Furgeson]

Hey Guys,

COVID isolation has my CAD flaring up more than it has at any time since I bought my first saw 12 years ago. I have quite the collection of muscle saws now, and I'd like to avoid having to tear every one down to the bare bones to clean it up. Most of these saws pre-date the modern mixes and clean burning oils, so for the most part when I pull the mufflers I find a ton of carbon buildup in the exhaust port and ring grooves. A 795 MAC I picked up was almost 100% blocked in a couple of the ports. Luckily most saws still have great compression, but I want to get rid of that carbon before it causes issues.

So, while doing research I ran across Stihl Decarbonizer which has since been discontinued. From the people that have used it they love it. From what I read, some dealers refused to stock it because it would mean less service work and sales of new equipment.

Right now I'm getting carbon out with screwdrivers and picks, but that comes with it's own risks when you get close to the piston, and if some broken up carbon finds its way into the engine. A chemical solution that does most of the work for me would be ideal.

You can buy EDTA solution or powder to make your own solution on Amazon. Does anybody have any knowledge of EDTA? Are there any risks using it? I'm sure you need to be careful and make sure you have sufficient lube in the cylinder after decarbonizing before firing it up. But that should be simple to do. Does it react with the aluminum or plating at all?

Do you guys have any other tricks for getting rid of carbon?

Thanks!

Scott

 

[Moparmyway]

Just run Red Armor or Dominator

They’ll start cleaning themselves up

After 6 tanks of hard use with Sunoco Optima & Dominator (5oz/gallon), I didn’t even see a wash pattern yet

 

[82f100swb]

Never seen the Stihl product, but this stuff is awesome. Unbelievably good carb cleaner as well. Every small engine shop I have worked at kept it in stock for the shop even if we weren't Merc dealers.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Never seen the Stihl product, but this stuff is awesome. Unbelievably good carb cleaner as well. Every small engine shop I have worked at kept it in stock for the shop even if we weren't Merc dealers.

Use to buy something very similar to that for doing those.
It was called Valvetec. Came in spray cans. Going to look for it today. B-12 Chemtool was good to soak parts in about twenty years ago.

 

[82f100swb]

I have heard of the ValvTect stuff, never used it though. Evinrude also has a similar product.
It and the Merc stuff do work well for soaking parts. Done if many times.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I have heard of the ValvTect stuff, never used it though. Evinrude also has a similar product.
It and the Merc stuff do work well for soaking parts. Done if many times.

Rude and Vtec are about the same. Rude was my starting point for mega cleaning juice.

 

[smokey7]

Yamaha ringfree may help. It's a Dr carbonizer just like the stihl stuff. I assume the stihl stuff is ran in the gas. If you are looking for a spray then I have some dpf cleaning spray that makes carbon it's *b-word or seafoam deep creep spray. Maybe even seafoam in the mix. Just be careful not to use more then a oz or 2 in a gallon of gas. Seafoam has lots of naptha which kinda burns like diesel.

The risk is carbon scoring your engines if a big chunk comes off.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Yamaha ringfree may help. It's a Dr carbonizer just like the stihl stuff. I assume the stihl stuff is ran in the gas. If you are looking for a spray then I have some dpf cleaning spray that makes carbon it's *b-word or seafoam deep creep spray. Maybe even seafoam in the mix. Just be careful not to use more then a oz or 2 in a gallon of gas. Seafoam has lots of naptha which kinda burns like diesel.

The risk is carbon scoring your engines if a big chunk comes off.

I just want a soaking cleaner myself. These mufflers, pistons and cylinders are a pia to clean. Got spoiled this year past porting and modding new stuff.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

Just run Red Armor or Dominator

They’ll start cleaning themselves up

After 6 tanks of hard use with Sunoco Optima & Dominator (5oz/gallon), I didn’t even see a wash pattern yet

On a newer saw with light carbon yes a good modern mix oil would clean it up over time. But I don't think this is the route to go when the exhaust port has an 1/8" thick of buildup in it.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

Never seen the Stihl product, but this stuff is awesome. Unbelievably good carb cleaner as well. Every small engine shop I have worked at kept it in stock for the shop even if we weren't Merc dealers.

I'll have to pick some of that up to try. Thanks for the recommendation!

 

[Turd Furgeson]

Yamaha ringfree may help. It's a Dr carbonizer just like the stihl stuff. I assume the stihl stuff is ran in the gas. If you are looking for a spray then I have some dpf cleaning spray that makes carbon it's *b-word or seafoam deep creep spray. Maybe even seafoam in the mix. Just be careful not to use more then a oz or 2 in a gallon of gas. Seafoam has lots of naptha which kinda burns like diesel.

The risk is carbon scoring your engines if a big chunk comes off.

The stihl stuff was in a small bottle with a nozzle like gear lube. You pulled the plug and poured it in the cylinder with the piston at TDC, then you let it soak. It would dissolve the carbon in the EDTA and you would then pour the used fluid out.

 

[Turd Furgeson]

I just want a soaking cleaner myself. These mufflers, pistons and cylinders are a pia to clean. Got spoiled this year past porting and modding new stuff.

I'm looking for a soaking cleaner as well. Work smarter not harder.

 

[Stevetheboatguy]

Can't go wrong with any of these. No complaints about any of them.



I have a customer that swears by wd40 mixed in his gas. But I have never tried it.


Steven

 

[Steve]

General motors X66P. This will do what you are asking.

 

[Xr650jkallen]

I have forgotten who it was that said it, but it was said in the ultrasonic cleaner thread. L.A. Awesome has the same active decarbonizer as the stihl stuff.

 

[Xr650jkallen]

@dustinwilt68 it was.

Looked at the MSDS for LAsTotally awesome.
It lists "Tetra Sodium EDTA (CAS# 64-02-8)" amongst the ingredients.
http://sds.chemtel.net/webclients/s...nerandDegreasersandSpotRemover_01-10-2011.pdf

It's also listed in the Stihl decarbonizer, but the Stihl product has a much higher percentage of it.
Anyone thinking of trying, what I'm thinking of trying for the next carbon soak?
(edited: maybe one day my typing will match my thinking, on the first try.)
https://m.stihlusa.com/WebContent/CMSFileLibrary/SDS/MSDS-Engine_De-Carbonizer.pdf

Awesome All Purpose Concentrated Cleaner

 

[dustinwilt68]

Of all the stuff I have tested, it works the best for the cost.

 

[angelo c]

I soak in b12 berryman. best decarbonizer ive found...at walmart.

soak some scrub some with a brass brush soak ect

 

[Eduardo K]

Peeps used to swear by sea foam for decarbing two stroke outboards. Mostly the waterman types who would rack up a ton of low or idle rpm hours on their engines. In all of the time I’ve put on my outboard and used sea foam or the OMC Evinrude/Johnson decarbonizers to “clean” it out, I’ve never noticed a difference between the two.

 

[Dustin4185]

Peeps used to swear by sea foam for decarbing two stroke outboards. Mostly the waterman types who would rack up a ton of low or idle rpm hours on their engines. In all of the time I’ve put on my outboard and used sea foam or the OMC Evinrude/Johnson decarbonizers to “clean” it out, I’ve never noticed a difference between the two.

I did some trading on a 25 Rude and the first thing I did was hit the lake with it and a bottle of Sea Foam in a squirt bottle. I got the motor warmed up and took the cowl off so I could access the carb. Hit the lake wide open and drown it with Sea Foam, let it come back up and do it again. You could see the carbon in the exhaust coming out. That motor looks practically new inside!