Cylinder spark plug repair - timeserts

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

I hate the solid Helicoils but I Love the stainless spring type Helicoils I have not had a failure in 25 years

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My issue is not "failures"... It's the helicoil sticking to the spark plug and backing out... I want my inserts to stay in the cylinder once set.

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

I have tried over tightening it and abusing it and it seems to be holding out very well. I recommend absolutely.

Yea if you do 4-5 cylinder repairs c $30ea it pays for itself.

 

[Ebels hardware]

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[Ebels hardware]

This is the only style Helicoil I will use I have will not use the solids these stay put and Dont attach themselves to the plug

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[Cobby08]

The tap is a "special" pitch / size that is unique to each specific timesert size... IIRC
Same with the helicoil taps...

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The spark plug kit I checked tonight. M14x1.25 tap and 9/16" drill bit. The countersink doesn't have a label though.

 

[tickbitintn]

Maybe its the helicoil taps that are "special"..... or maybe not. i might be wrong about that too!

 

[skippy]

This is good to know . it's cheaper than buying a cylinder .

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

Maybe its the helicoil taps that are "special"..... or maybe not. i might be wrong about that too!

The helicoil and timeserts both use STI taps. STI taps stand for "screw thread insert". This I believe means that they sell you the tap in 14x1.25 but the tap actuall cuts larger (like m16?) so that after the insert is installed it's returned to 14x1.25 threads. If that makes any sense??

The spark plug kits by timesert and helicoil are usually a stepped tap that starts down the old threads cuts the material out and re-taps for the insert.

 

[tickbitintn]

That makes sense to me.
I remember needing a tap for a helicoil kit some years back and couldn't find one other than replacing the kit.

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[Black Dog Chainsaw]

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This is the style that I have had problems with backing out. The timesert is a solid tube insert but it uses loctite as well as a "cold roll" to lock it into place. You will notice in the pic below there is a small dished spot in the threads where they put a separate small piece of metal. When you use the "cold roll" tool it pushes that bit of metal out into the outer threads locking the insert into place along with locktite to hold everything steady.

They also have a counter bore lip that sinks the insert perfectly flush with the cylinder and helps create more friction to keep it locked in place and mate perfectly with the crush washer on the plug.

 

[tickbitintn]

I have a few kits, when they get borrowed they don't always come back the way they left....

A mix of spark plug, drain plug and etc...
Have some more smaller sizes elsewhere.
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[Black Dog Chainsaw]

That makes sense to me.
I remember needing a tap for a helicoil kit some years back and couldn't find one other than replacing the kit.

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Timesert and helicoil use the stepped tap but you can use a standard drill to open it and a standard sti tap of the correct size. I believe the kit calls for 9/16 (.5625) or 37/64 (.5781) to drill and then you can use a standard 14x1.25 sti tap.

I have a Ford Timesert kit, and that drill size is too large for these smaller/thinner inserts. Timesert wanted $70 for their stepped STI tap. I will be trying to use the helicoil 14x1.25 sti tap in conjunction with the timeserts to see how that works. I already have a 37/64 drill bit, and the 14x1.25 cold roll tool from the triton kit should work the same. The only thing I'd need to worry about is the counter bore for the top lip of the insert. Shallow face counter bores can be bought separate I hope.

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

I have a few kits, when they get borrowed they don't always come back the way they left....

A mix of spark plug, drain plug and etc...
Have some more smaller sizes elsewhere.
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The Timesert 14x1.25 drain plug kits is essentially the same as the shallow spark plug repair kit. You just have to drill and tap instead of running a stepped tap. And buy the 7-8mm deep inserts.

 

[tickbitintn]

Out of all of the kits in that drawer only two have the stepped taps.
The rest are drill bit and tap combos.
I would feel confident using the drill and non stepped tap in any application.
The inserts coming in different depths can be very useful also.
In a pinch I have shortened a deeper insert to fit a shallower hole for more thread contact than the shallower insert would allow for.


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[srcarr52]

The Timesert 14x1.25 drain plug kits is essentially the same as the shallow spark plug repair kit. You just have to drill and tap instead of running a stepped tap. And buy the 7-8mm deep inserts.

I looked into that and I want to say the counter bores are different for the drain plug inserts. The expanding mandrel would be the same.

 

[Black Dog Chainsaw]

I looked into that and I want to say the counter bores are different for the drain plug inserts. The expanding mandrel would be the same.

There is a $23 spare part that timesert sells for the shallow head Harley Davidson plug repairs. I think that one should work too.

 

[psuiewalsh]

I'm looking to buy the M5 timesert kit. Does anyone know a cheap way to put a good kit together? I have used several of the M5 inserts with a 5mm tap and nut for a driver in a 6mm hole and a regular mill for a counter bore but looking to avoid $70 for a kit.

 

[Al Smith]

If you were handy around a machine shop you could round up enough tooling to do the job .Of interest perhaps is the fact that Roush racing uses time certs on every Ford engine block they build up .Fact they are used for block repairs in the factory .
I have no idea what the inserts for an M14 cert would cost in bulk but the price in quantity for say M8-10-12 is about 3 bucks a pop .They come in bags of a thousand .

Couple days ago a toolmaker bud at work showed me how they work .Using a form tap it expands the inner portion of the cert .No way could it ever back out .

I've never tried but I think with a little experimentaion I could crank one out on the lathe .I however have no idea where to find an M14 1.25 form tap .

 

[Brian Simonseth]

Tomorrow I'll find the pic's of the one I had repaired at a Stihl shop and placed in 044 10 mm and that saw is still being used; I told the guy who bought it what took place and he didn't care he even went in and talked to the guy who made the repair

 

[Jughead]

Instead of timeserts i'm going to do a little experimentation with these to see how they hold up.uses just a straight slot screwdriver and standard tap.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-inserts/=10z7cnv
It is the slotted thread locking type.