Why don't more people run PS3 chain instead of 325 on 50CC saws?

[David Young]

Darn. Maybe they'll get one out someday.

I spoke with a rep and asked about this. The reason they go with a micro chisel is because of kickback. And they will probably not go full chiz on the lowpro anytime soon

 

[Stump Shot]

For 325 vw 3/8 folks seem split. 325 has a nice following on 50cc saws, saying it's smoother in the cut and no slower than 3/8.

PS3 on 50cc - very few even try it. The ones who do say it's super fast. A few offer the critiquies I mentioned in the OP.

My 261 is barely faster than my 241 and that's annoying. I am trying to decide between

a. port it (at which point will 325 make more sense? Or jump to 3/8?)
b. convert it to PS3
c. a & b
d. sell 261, port the 241 and get a 462 with 20" bar for wood over 16-18"

Really this depends on the usage you find yourself in. With the endless possibilities of saw/bar&chain combinations the possibilities are endless.
There's times I like the nk and times I don't.
To keep it simple, the bigger the wood the bigger the chain and the saw will follow right along with, the more it has to pull.
There's no one answer for everything, just what is right for the task at hand, after that we just make do with what we have.

 

[pro94lt]

If you like ps3 why not pmm3. It’s another step in that direction I can run a 16” bar on a 101 pole saw with it lol.

 

[rumatt]

There's no one answer for everything, just what is right for the task at hand

Yeah I hear you on the endless options and no right answer. I was just trying to understand what are the advantages of 325. Why am I slowing my saw down by cutting a 25% wider path through the wood?

Durability and bad strength are fine I guess. But if narrower kerf stuff simply can't keep up with a more powerful saw that's a much more compelling argument.

 

[Stump Shot]

Yeah I hear you on the endless options and no right answer. I was just trying to understand what are the advantages of 325. Why am I slowing my saw down by cutting a 25% wider path through the wood?

Durability and bad strength are fine I guess. But if narrower kerf stuff simply can't keep up with a more powerful saw that's a much more compelling argument.

Part of the chains speed is it's ability to clear chip. So the kerf size advantage can disappear quickly when it becomes clogged up, this is where the bigger chain takes over in speed.

 

[Junk Meister]

Small log holder. Im not fond of it. I prefer the norwegian style one I made mysel

I was puzzled thank you for the reply

 

[Philbert]

Why one chain?

Periodically, I share my 'chainsaws are like socket sets' ramblings.

Power heads are like ratchets: you have a 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive ratchet - you have a 40cc, 50cc. and 60-70cc saw.
Guide bars are like extensions (self-explanatory?)
Chains are like sockets: you have deep and standard, 6 and 12 point, SAE and metric, maybe a few specialty ones for certain jobs ?

Why limit yourself to just one bar and one chain per saw? Have a variety of semi and full-chisel, skip tooth and full comp, etc., as well as chains filed / ground at different angles for different wood.

JMHO

Philbert

 

[Terry Syd]

Philbert, along those lines, I'd love to see a test of various mods to chains to see what really might make a difference in cutting speed. If 'chip clearance' on a chain was an issue, then thinning the rivets might fix that problem for the life of the chain. Perhaps a steep leading edge on the raker might flush chips faster, or maybe 'tunneling' on the cutter might help.

If someone has some empirical results from testing, I'd like to know about it.

We can work our angles on the cutters and rakers, but a mod that would last for the life of the chain would be a nice thing to know about.

 

[Philbert]

Philbert, along those lines, I'd love to see a test of various mods to chains to see what really might make a difference in cutting speed.

The manufacturers (Oregon, STIHL, etc.) do that. They have instrumented test benches and can measure chain speed, motor torque, cutting time till 'dull', etc., in a variety of different woods. There is no one 'correct' answer: if you are cutting bubinga wood in Africa with a 70cc saw, the 'best' settings would be different than cutting balsam fir in a Minnesota Christmas tree farm with a 35cc saw.

They compare cutting speed versus time-till-sharpening (whatever that is called); chain wear and breakage; etc. Then they come out with 'general' guidelines for 'typical' users, e.g. 30°/60°/0°. Paraphrasing one chain engineer (my words, their comments), they are designing and selling chain for millions of users, in hundreds of countries, cutting thousands of species of trees, using dozens of different saws.

Most of us will not notice a significant difference besides choosing chisel / semi-chisel, square versus round, skip versus full comp, and some modest changes in angles (25° to 35° / 50° - 60° / 0° - 10°).

The racers are different, but they only care about making 3 cuts ('2 down and 1 up') before sharpening a chain, and most races IMO are won by technique, more than magic chains.

I want a work chain that will keep going for reasonable times ('MTBS' - mean time between sharpening).

Philbert

 

[rumatt]

Why one chain?

Periodically, I share my 'chainsaws are like socket sets' ramblings.

Power heads are like ratchets: you have a 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drive ratchet - you have a 40cc, 50cc. and 60-70cc saw.
Guide bars are like extensions (self-explanatory?)
Chains are like sockets: you have deep and standard, 6 and 12 point, SAE and metric, maybe a few specialty ones for certain jobs ?

Why limit yourself to just one bar and one chain per saw? Have a variety of semi and full-chisel, skip tooth and full comp, etc., as well as chains filed / ground at different angles for different wood.

JMHO

Philbert

I take your point.

But I can swap a ratchet extension in 1 second. Changing from picco to 325 requires changing the sprocket as well as the new bar and chain. And bars cost more than socket extensions!

 

[Dub11]

I take your point.

But I can swap a ratchet extension in 1 second. Changing from picco to 325 requires changing the sprocket as well as the new bar and chain. And bars cost more than socket extensions!

Pair's of saws running different flavors.

 

[Terry Syd]

OK, so we're back to where we started. What ever works better for your cutting conditions or the wood or ease of sharpening or reasonable sharpening times or whatever, Gawd I'm glad we settled this discussion - it's been going on for so many years that I almost forgot what we decided upon....

Excuse me while I nip up a blade...

 

[Deets066]

Philbert, along those lines, I'd love to see a test of various mods to chains to see what really might make a difference in cutting speed. If 'chip clearance' on a chain was an issue, then thinning the rivets might fix that problem for the life of the chain. Perhaps a steep leading edge on the raker might flush chips faster, or maybe 'tunneling' on the cutter might help.

If someone has some empirical results from testing, I'd like to know about it.

We can work our angles on the cutters and rakers, but a mod that would last for the life of the chain would be a nice thing to know about.

Dog boning the dl’s Gains ya a little chip flow

 

[rumatt]

OK, so we're back to where we started. What ever works better for your cutting conditions or the wood or ease of sharpening or reasonable sharpening times or whatever, Gawd I'm glad we settled this discussion - it's been going on for so many years that I almost forgot what we decided upon....

Not sure that's quite fair. This isn't a "what's best" thread. There is no universal "best" here, just pros and cons of each.

The goal of this thread was to understand the pros and cons. To help people make the choice.

 

[rumatt]

View attachment 187579
Dog boning the dl’s Gains ya a little chip flow

I tried to use Google to learn more about dog boning.

As you might expect, I left disappointed.

 

[Terry Syd]

Dog boning the dl’s Gains ya a little chip flow

Looks like you thinned the rivets a bit also. Did you ever try to quantify any improvement, like a before and after test? Thinning the rivets looks like it would be an easy mod, reverse the chain, turn up the idle and then use a hand held grinder on the rivets.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I tried to use Google to learn more about dog boning.

As you might expect, I left disappointed.

I did the same, I left roflmao

 

[Willard]

I didn't know Oregon made a lp chisel. Got a part #?

Actually both Oregon and Stihl first introduced a LoProfile 3/8 chisel over 40 years ago.
76LG and 33Topic Super.
And the beauty of them was they were in standard 3/8 pitch and could be run on the same bar and sprocket as a 72LG and 33RS.
Here's some of mine Cut4fun sold me a few years back.
I was running the 33TS on my 550XP-13" pulpwood saw.

 

[Deets066]

Looks like you thinned the rivets a bit also. Did you ever try to quantify any improvement, like a before and after test? Thinning the rivets looks like it would be an easy mod, reverse the chain, turn up the idle and then use a hand held grinder on the rivets.

Thinning the rivets only helps when you have less than half the cutter that’s been stoned. New chain thinning the rivets doesn’t really do much

 

[Deets066]