ms 461 woods port race thing

[tree monkey]

lets look at the design of the port. both port windows are feed by one tunnel. in stock form, the secondary's open first.

I made the primaries open first. is it possible that there is compressed charge in the secondary pushing the charge backwards when the primary opens? I believe this to be the problem

 

[tree monkey]

well maybe not. there is a divider in there

 

[XP_Slinger]

So in theory, opening the transfers together, not staggered, might reduce the pressure that’s pushing your primary out the exhaust. Have you tried opening them together yet? Sorry I don’t remember, I know you tried raising the secondaries. But how far?

Edit: nevermind, simul Post again

 

[Fruecrue]

i'm allowing more flow in the secondary's so I have less loss in the primary's

Is it possible that this is counter productive?

 

[tree monkey]

might have to skin the next cat with a different knife. lol

 

[tree monkey]

Is it possible that this is counter productive?

it's the next test, we shell see

 

[XP_Slinger]

That makes a lot of sense having gone through this R&D. Going back and studying your last wash inspection it appears your clutch side ports are slightly lower than the flywheel side, wash is smaller especially on the secondary. Could this imbalance also contribute to the flywheel side charge going out the exhaust to greater extent when compared to the wash on the clutch side? One step at a time, just an observation.

 

[paragonbuilder]

lets look at the design of the port. both port windows are feed by one tunnel. in stock form, the secondary's open first.

I made the primaries open first. is it possible that there is compressed charge in the secondary pushing the charge backwards when the primary opens? I believe this to be the problem

So quite possibly the tunnel was designed to feed these transfers in stock form. So the engineers are thinking the secondaries are flowing when the primaries crack. I wonder what a bone stock 461 wash pattern looks like? Are The flow dynamics being interrupted by your switch?

 

[Keith Gandy]

Wouldn’t venting the secondaries later, not earlier, give you more initial pressure in the mains?

Am I seeing this backwards?

I like opening the sec. A degree or so first. In my mind it purges the loop alil before the mains and gives alil venturi effect for the mains. A head start? Just thinking

 

[XP_Slinger]

So quite possibly the tunnel was designed to feed these transfers in stock form. So the engineers are thinking the secondaries are flowing when the primaries crack. I wonder what a bone stock 461 wash pattern looks like? Are The flow dynamics being interrupted by your switch?

I’m wondering about stock wash also. Just to see what the inverse of transfer opening looks like for my own learning.

 

[paragonbuilder]

I’m wondering about stock wash also. Just to see what the inverse of transfer opening looks like for my own learning.

I see it this way. These engineers aren’t dumb. They have reasons they design it the way they do, even if it is counter to “our” wants... lol
It doesn’t mean there is no flaw in their design either though. Seeing what we have stock and trying to understand their intentions can help us to work with that or adjust accordingly.

 

[tree monkey]

vid loading, about 7 tenths slower. that's not what i'm looking for

 

[paragonbuilder]

vid loading, about 7 tenths slower. that's not what i'm looking for

What was this change? Closing the stagger of the transfers?

 

[tree monkey]

so do I put the piston in with more primary? or the stock piston?

 

[XP_Slinger]

I see it this way. These engineers aren’t dumb. They have reasons they design it the way they do, even if it is counter to “our” wants... lol
It doesn’t mean there is no flaw in their design either though. Seeing what we have stock and trying to understand their intentions can help us to work with that or adjust accordingly.

Completely agree.

 

[tree monkey]

What was this change? Closing the stagger of the transfers?

yes, went from 7 to 4

 

[Fruecrue]

What if the wash pattern corrected but the saw was slower?
It’s a race saw, if you’ve got a bit of fresh charge leaving, complete scavenging, and more power, so what?
Winning is winning.

 

[XP_Slinger]

I believe you said you’ve got more flow going to the secondaries; is it time to pump more volume through the primaries to combat the entry displacement of the secondaries?

 

[paragonbuilder]

so do I put the piston in with more primary? or the stock piston?

I’d say more primary, you been at 7 for a while, perhaps more stagger will help? You Can still back up.

 

[tree monkey]

What if the wash pattern corrected but the saw was slower?
It’s a race saw, if you’ve got a bit of fresh charge leaving, complete scavenging, and more power, so what?
Winning is winning.

yes, but if I can keep that charge in it, it should make more power

I believe you said you’ve got more flow going to the secondaries; is it time to pump more volume through the primaries to combat the entry displacement of the secondaries?

primary open first, so they should flow more then the secondary