I'm done with blackpowder subs for good!

[FergusonTO35]

I just spent more than two hours trying to sight in my two side locks and my inline with Triple 7. I used Pyrodex for years prior and gave up on it due to way too many hang fires and the fact that it's super corrosive. Some days T7 is great and other days it just sucks. A cleaning rod is currently stuck in one of the sidelocks, I believe the patch got hung on the usual T7 crud ring. This muzzleloader season is a bust, so I'm going to give away the subs I have left and start over with real BP.

Or, maybe lady fortune will smile on me and Kentucky will start allowing single shot cartridge rifles during muzzleloaders season, as a few enlightened states already do. I sent a message about this topic and my arguments in favor to the Commissioner of KDFWR. He didn't seem totally against the idea and said he would send it on to the wildlife director.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

I like Goex Black Powder.

American Pioneer Powder is good. Have you treid this black powder sub?

Some Powder is just flat out nasty! I use both I have listed.

I'm building a .69 cal Jim Bridger style rifle. Hopefully the barrel shows up before the end of the year. This coming March will be three years since the barrel was ordered.

 

[Gullet]

I guess it depends on the gun, I've had great luck with T7(modern in-lines)
Muzzleloaders is all I hunt with (even during Modern Gun season) for the past 15 years.
Killed some good ones over the years.
Killed a 8 point over 100yrds this year.
I can usually make em all touch @ 75yds on paper with T7.
It's not made to be packed super tight like Pyrodex can be.

 

[Lnk]

How is the availability of real black powder? I still have 10 pounds from my last order from graf's. I am growing some willows just in case it becomes unobtainium. Tried 777 before and didn't care for it. Accurate, but I don't like the smell. First world problems I know.


Edit:
Just looked at graf's, price up and availability non existent. Damn, I thought the hogdon plant was coming back online under new owners. WTH?

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

@Lnk Goex black powder should be available by the end of the year. The plant is back up and running.

 

[huskihl]

Back in the day 15-20 years ago, there was a powder called Clean Shot. It was bought out almost instantly by American Pioneer Powder. You could wet swab 20 times between shots with the same patch and it would still be just tan colored. I can’t believe Hodgdon is still in business with Triple 7

 

[Loony661]

I’ve been using Blackhorn 209 with good results. I’ve fired up to 30 shots consecutively without cleaning. Needs magnum primers and sometimes a special breech plug.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I found a can of Pyrodex P which worked somewhat better than the regular stuff, so I'll give that a try. I suspect T7 just doesn't like mild charges. I use 70 grains under a round ball in sidelocks, the same under a conical or sabot in the inline. Pyro is a lot better at least in that regard, I was always happy with the accuracy.

BP doesn't exist around here, I'll just have to suck it up and pay hazmat. Nearest place that carries it is 1.5 hours away and, when you add in gas to get there plus their margin, may as well buy online. These days real BP is still cheaper than smokeless even with hazmat. "Cheap" smokeless is 35.00 a pound here, whereas BP is around 25.00 online. Buy a few cans and you're actually paying less per pound.

BH209 is just stupid expensive. I know it works great but, I like to shoot my guns quite a bit and I'm not swallowing that price. Besides, I mostly shoot sidelocks and it doesn't work in those.

The APP sub is available but it has a different name now, can't remember what it is. If it was available locally I would try it. Given that I'm a sidelock man for the most part I think it just makes sense to get the real stuff.

I may use my .45-70 muzzleloader during this season. With sights and a 300 grain lead bullet at 1200 fps it's the functional equivalent of a sidelock. I know that's de jure cheating, oh well. The game warden would have to trespass big time to catch me.

 

[Loony661]

The game warden would have to trespass big time to catch me.

Not to sidetrack, but here in MN a game warden has the most authority of any LEO. They can be on any property, as well as enter a home without a warrant, to check the freezer for possession limits, etc.

 

[FergusonTO35]

In Kentucky they can only enter private property with permission of the owner, a warrant, or on probable cause that a law is being broken. If I get my rifle shooting well with Pyro I'm not going to cheat, just a backup plan. Wardens around here deal with trespassers and spotlighters a lot more than anything else.

 

[Loony661]

In Kentucky they can only enter private property with permission of the owner, a warrant, or on probable cause that a law is being broken. If I get my rifle shooting well with Pyro I'm not going to cheat, just a backup plan. Wardens around here deal with trespassers and spotlighters a lot more than anything else.

It doesn’t matter to me if you bend the rules or not, I personally feel we are over governed with all these rules for simply hunting deer. At any rate, I like Kentucky’s approach by still respecting the landowner and needing just and probable cause before entry.

I can say, that I don’t know of anyone who has been “violated” by the DNR here, that didn’t deserve it. So it’s not like the wardens are just going house to house. They certainly have more important things to do unless evidence suggests otherwise.

 

[Gullet]

I want you guys who are dogging my loved T7 to remember that SANTA IS WATCHING YOU!

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

I want you guys who are dogging my loved T7 to remember that SANTA IS WATCHING YOU!

Santa can go fly some reindeer for all I care.....

 

[FergusonTO35]

I want you guys who are dogging my loved T7 to remember that SANTA IS WATCHING YOU!

I know T7 works for a lot of folks and that's fine. Some days it actually works quite well for me, but other days not at all. I suspect T7 doesn't do well with mild loads, which are all I shoot. I tried Pyrodex P in the sidelock and it immediately went back to shooting minute of deer at 50 yards, which is all I need it to do. So I guess I don't have to cheat this year after all.

The one thing nice I can say about Pyrodex is that it has always been pretty accurate in my rifles, with no need to clean between shots. I'm still planning to switch to real BP though. I may revisit T7 in my inline and see if I can straighten it out, since I have about 1.5 pounds left.

Feels good to take this old friend out for an afternoon:

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

One thing I have noticed, if your shooting lighter loads fffg works better than ffg.

 

[Gullet]

I know T7 works for a lot of folks and that's fine. Some days it actually works quite well for me, but other days not at all. I suspect T7 doesn't do well with mild loads, which are all I shoot. I tried Pyrodex P in the sidelock and it immediately went back to shooting minute of deer at 50 yards, which is all I need it to do. So I guess I don't have to cheat this year after all.

The one thing nice I can say about Pyrodex is that it has always been pretty accurate in my rifles, with no need to clean between shots. I'm still planning to switch to real BP though. I may revisit T7 in my inline and see if I can straighten it out, since I have about 1.5 pounds left.

Feels good to take this old friend out for an afternoon:

View attachment 400053

I'm taking the .50 CVA Optima V2 (Stainless/Nikon) out next two days for some exercise.
120 grains T7, so if you feel the World stop spinning for a second, you'll know what happened! Lol

 

[FergusonTO35]

One thing I have noticed, if your shooting lighter loads fffg works better than ffg.

I used Pyrodex P today which is their version of fffg, it usually works quite well. Biggest problem with sidelocks, of course, is the right angle ignition path. I've always found finer cut powder works better in them. I did clean my rifle pretty thoroughly afterwards. If the rifle is stored indoors I'm not sure there is really a need to oil or coat the bore for storage. My centerfires have never had a problem with bore rust, and neither have my muzzleloaders as long as they were cleaned and dried thoroughly.

Before I go out tomorrow I'm going to revisit the sabot loads in my other sidelock with Pyrodex P. A gent here was kind enough to donate a few different bullets to try.

 

[Lnk]

I want you guys who are dogging my loved T7 to remember that SANTA IS WATCHING YOU!

T7 works well when the charge is set off by a shotgun primer. Not so much with percussion caps or flint. Black powder always works as long as it is dry. I know you use an inline Paul, so T7 works for you. Some of us like a sidelock and want it to fire reliably. I have an inline too. Still use black.

 

[FergusonTO35]

I'm taking the .50 CVA Optima V2 (Stainless/Nikon) out next two days for some exercise.
120 grains T7, so if you feel the World stop spinning for a second, you'll know what happened! Lol

No thanks, I'll stay in the shallow end of the pool!

 

[Gullet]

I used Pyrodex P today which is their version of fffg, it usually works quite well. Biggest problem with sidelocks, of course, is the right angle ignition path. I've always found finer cut powder works better in them.

T7 isn't fine powder by any stretch.
Not even recommended for pistols.
Not recommended for packing TIGHT in a barrel.
I have however, cut it down thinner in a kitchen strainer (wire mesh) & it works just fine.