HL Supply Discount Hybrid Build

[MustangMike]

It was a rainy day all day today, so I could not cut/split wood, etc, so I did another project.

One of my Asian 440 Big Bores was slated for some additional port work. The saw already has a used OEM 460 piston, and then a light went on in my head.

I have several of the HL Supply 460 Door Buster cylinders (they are still under $20). I used one on a 460 that did not have a cylinder, with a Meteor piston, and was very impressed with how it runs.

I've heard some folks have concerns with the plating, but mine seem to look good, so I'll use em and see how they hold up. The porting seems VG on these cylinders. I just cleaned up the ports a bit, added some small bridge ports, and lowered the intake to about 80.

To modify the cylinder for the hybrid build I had to slot the holes, and thin the left and right sides of the base (so it will fit the 440 case), but after that no other mods to the cylinder, no cutting of fins, etc, and I assembled it w/o a base gasket. Squish is .022.

You also have to remove some of the webbing in the front of the top cover. I used sheet metal shears and they seemed to work well for this. Of course, everyone is familiar with the muffler spacers. I did not have one, so I glued 3 washers to the muffler on each lower hole, and held them in place with vice grips. (PL Premium is my friend).

The only other interference was the top cover hit the cylinder where it bulges for the spark plug wire. Not wanting to mod either the cylinder or the top cover there, I just spaced out the lower left hole on the top cover. 4 washers and a small piece of flashing threaded on to hold them in place.

I also put some duct tape over the heat vent, as these saws do not come with the device to close them.

The rain stopped just about when I finished at about 5:00, so I got to fire it up and do one test cut with it. Feels strong, I'm happy with the way this "Budget saw" came out. Two more Hybrids in 5 days, I'm giddy!

And a big thanks to Dr Al for showing me how he did the other Hybrid. It made me feel comfortable about doing this one.

 

[MustangMike]

So, two days ago the saw ran perfectly, today it would not start or run. Changed the carb with an OEM (had to transfer the choke from another carb) and she fired right up and ran great!

I've had good results with Asian 440/460 carbs in the past, and few problems with the 660 carbs, but the recent Asian 440/460 carbs are driving me nuts, both the ones that came with the 440 kits and others I got separately.

I've had about 5 of them work just fine for 1,2 or 3 times running the saw, then just stop working. Just change the carb and your back in business.

What the heck??? Do they have dirt or debris in them??? I guess when I figure it out I'll have a bunch of carbs, but this is getting to be a real PITA!

Anyway after the carb change the saw ran pretty well. I'm actually planning to build a few more of them. If I can't determine how to fix these stupid carbs I'll start using my ZAMA carbs and sealing the snorkel holes.

 

[PA Dan]

Have any pics of your port work Mike?

 

[MustangMike]

No, not this cylinder, but it is very similar to what I have posted previously. I generally just C clamp the cylinder to my trailer (portable workbench) so the mess is outside. I do most of the intake lowering with a half round file, and the bridge ports with my $9.99 HF grinder.

Some pics of a previous one, they look kinda the same. On 440/460 w/o base gasket, 80* is 9/16 from the base of the jug. (This was a 440 BB jug).

The ports on the HL Supply Door Buster jug are just better to start with than the 440 BB jugs, but I lower the intake on both of them, and bridge ports don't seem to hurt at all.

 

[PA Dan]

Thanks Mike!

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Thanks for your testing. Nice bridge port work, it gives me something to try as I see you’ve in fact enlarged the trans area at the same time,

Btw I think I said sometime ago in a thread some where about about a China 440/60 hybrid
Anyhow...good work

 

[MustangMike]

Today I got rid of the washer/spacers for the top cover. While it seemed like a good idea at the time, it moved the spark plug hole off center, and moved the decomp button hole enough to make it mal function. So I took my grinder and cut a little C in the corner of the top two fins of the cylinder, and we are good to go w/o the washers and everything now lines up just fine.

I also replaced the dp muffler cover with a factory cover with two 1/4" holes drilled high on the right side. I'm starting to re think muffler mods, and I don't think it is just an easy formula that is a % of the ex port. I now believe that the porting of the saw may dictate the aggressiveness of the muffler opening, and that the location of the ports is just as important as their size.

Even though this saw does not have any baffle, I think that fully removing them is sometimes a mistake that reduces low end torque. I recently build 3 460s, and I think the strongest one still has the baffle, and the smallest muffler mods. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule to apply here, I think it depends on your saw, it's porting, and your fuel delivery (carb). That said, I think a stock muffler would kill performance on all three of them, so IMO some modification is good, but more may not be.

I've exchanged open mufflers with ones with modified baffles on two 660s, and both gained torque, so I'm trying it on a third. I've also had another member PM me that he had similar results with his 660.

Wish I could provide more definitive information, but I think sometimes the only way to know what does, or does not work, is through experimentation.

 

[MG porting]

Today I got rid of the washer/spacers for the top cover. While it seemed like a good idea at the time, it moved the spark plug hole off center, and moved the decomp button hole enough to make it mal function. So I took my grinder and cut a little C in the corner of the top two fins of the cylinder, and we are good to go w/o the washers and everything now lines up just fine.

I also replaced the dp muffler cover with a factory cover with two 1/4" holes drilled high on the right side. I'm starting to re think muffler mods, and I don't think it is just an easy formula that is a % of the ex port. I now believe that the porting of the saw may dictate the aggressiveness of the muffler opening, and that the location of the ports is just as important as their size.

Even though this saw does not have any baffle, I think that fully removing them is sometimes a mistake that reduces low end torque. I recently build 3 460s, and I think the strongest one still has the baffle, and the smallest muffler mods. I don't think there is any hard and fast rule to apply here, I think it depends on your saw, it's porting, and your fuel delivery (carb). That said, I think a stock muffler would kill performance on all three of them, so IMO some modification is good, but more may not be.

I've exchanged open mufflers with ones with modified baffles on two 660s, and both gained torque, so I'm trying it on a third. I've also had another member PM me that he had similar results with his 660.

Wish I could provide more definitive information, but I think sometimes the only way to know what does, or does not work, is through experimentation.

I will step in a will say yes you can go to far with the muffler mods I've did several mufflers and thanks to MustangMike you got me going back and modding them a little differently now and I'm definitely seeing gains from what I've seen in the past.

 

[MustangMike]

My latest project is an Asian BB that has a little more port work than I have done in the past. Wish I had more to report (but I have some stuff), but I wasted over 2 hours trying to get the chain brake to work only to realize that they put the wrong brake flag in the kit (the correct one is on the left of the pic).

Although lighter pistons reduce vibrations, I used the New West BB piston in this one and really reduced felt vibs (in this saw and others) by doing the following: 1) put spacers (usually 2 or 3 small washers) under the upper vibration damper. The upper vibration dampers that come with the kits are not as deep as OEM. 2) Make sure the top handle is not too tight (some of them have so much torque they negate the washers). The one I installed today was fine, but I have bent a couple of them and noticed a significant reduction in vibrations.

I'm still being baffled by the carb failures on these saws. So many of them run OK (from 30 seconds to 3 weeks), then crap out. You would think the fuel filter would protect them from dirt, and I always check the tank during the build. I am starting to think there is gunk in the fuel line between the filter and the carb that is crapping them out. I' thinking of removing the filter and blowing them out. I'm not sure this is the problem, but nothing else seems to make sense. I've had both AM and OEM carbs crap out like this. Never seen carb failures at this rate before.

If anyone has any thoughts or information, please share. I have been fixing, and testing, the impulse lines which is a problem. After I fixed an impulse line today, the saw started and ran fine several times, then refused to run … WTF!!!

 

[MG porting]

My latest project is an Asian BB that has a little more port work than I have done in the past. Wish I had more to report (but I have some stuff), but I wasted over 2 hours trying to get the chain brake to work only to realize that they put the wrong brake flag in the kit (the correct one is on the left of the pic).

Although lighter pistons reduce vibrations, I used the New West BB piston in this one and really reduced felt vibs (in this saw and others) by doing the following: 1) put spacers (usually 2 or 3 small washers) under the upper vibration damper. The upper vibration dampers that come with the kits are not as deep as OEM. 2) Make sure the top handle is not too tight (some of them have so much torque they negate the washers). The one I installed today was fine, but I have bent a couple of them and noticed a significant reduction in vibrations.

I'm still being baffled by the carb failures on these saws. So many of them run OK (from 30 seconds to 3 weeks), then crap out. You would think the fuel filter would protect them from dirt, and I always check the tank during the build. I am starting to think there is gunk in the fuel line between the filter and the carb that is crapping them out. I' thinking of removing the filter and blowing them out. I'm not sure this is the problem, but nothing else seems to make sense. I've had both AM and OEM carbs crap out like this. Never seen carb failures at this rate before.

If anyone has any thoughts or information, please share. I have been fixing, and testing, the impulse lines which is a problem. After I fixed an impulse line today, the saw started and ran fine several times, then refused to run … WTF!!!

Yea I've found crap in the tank and the filters are good in some cases but I've seen some with stuff in them to so before using them I flush the heck out of them.

 

[MustangMike]

Frustration again today. Was looking forward to putting this darn thing in some wood. So, first thing I do is change the carb. Still won't start or pop.

So I prime it, and get a real weird pop, and I know what that means. I'm real careful installing flywheels, but it spun. So I rip it off , make a new filed key, clean it up, and put it on real tight. Saw starts and runs for about 30 seconds, then craps again.

I take a break and do other things, then rip the flywheel off again. Only this time, the key is not sheared, it did not spin, something else is wrong … this saw is becoming a damn challenge!

I'm thinking what the most likely culprits could be … spark plug, coil, fuel line, carb …??? Shut off mid stream, and it was not idling!!!

Not going to have time to play with it tomorrow, maybe on the WE, but I have stuff to do.

 

[Sty57]

What are you Torquing the flywheel nut to?
I always wipe the crank and the flywheel with some Acetone before I put it on and torque it down.

 

[huskyboy]

Maybe the coil?

 

[MustangMike]

I always clean the flywheel + crank with brake cleaner, and make as tight as I can w/o stripping it. It held the 2nd time, so that is not the problem now.

Maybe the coil, see above.

 

[MG porting]

I always clean the flywheel + crank with brake cleaner, and make as tight as I can w/o stripping it. It held the 2nd time, so that is not the problem now.

Maybe the coil, see above.

Coil or she's not venting.

 

[MustangMike]

I don't think the tank vent would jam up that fast.

 

[huskyboy]

I don't think the tank vent would jam up that fast.

It could be defective

 

[MustangMike]

I meant if it was not working, I think the saw would run longer before it shuts down, but I will keep it in mind.

 

[T.Roller]

It's a piece of *s-word maybe lol

 

[MustangMike]

Yea, but that is why it is a challenge to get it to run right!