Duke's 262XP top end

[Sawrain]

1. Thanks!
2. No, currently this is a different one Bob and I had been talking about and I got one and sent it up to him.
3. Not positive, to be honest, maybe Bob has a better idea.
Thanks!
Chris

Thanks for the fast reply.

I just spotted the decomp passage in the pictures, so that might answer some questions.

I’ll be excitedly waiting to see how this one runs against stock, and maybe how it runs against your current $65 dollar offering.

We appreciate any quality options for the 262xp in the cylinder department, but was just wondering if there were any specific improvements this cylinder hoped to offer over your current one?

I actually came on here to look for, or put a 262 cylinder wanted post up today, will probably see how this pans out though now before doing anything.

 

[trooney]

Always loved the 262! Thanks for the input Bob @Spike60

 

[trooney]

Always loved the 262! Thanks for the input Bob @Spike60

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Thanks for the fast reply.

I just spotted the decomp passage in the pictures, so that might answer some questions.

I’ll be excitedly waiting to see how this one runs against stock, and maybe how it runs against your current $65 dollar offering.

We appreciate any quality options for the 262xp in the cylinder department, but was just wondering if there were any specific improvements this cylinder hoped to offer over your current one?

I actually came on here to look for, or put a 262 cylinder wanted post up today, will probably see how this pans out though now before doing anything.

Yep! There are some differences, mainly in the plating/coating and also in the actual finish of the interior of the cylinder. The one we currently have doesn't offer much in the way of chamfering. The chamfer in this current model is beautiful.
This one is chrome and the current Nikasil.

 

[JohnnyBlade]

These would probably fall somewhere in the realm of $75-80+ the ride. Likely will get some stock here in the near future.



This one here is chrome plated and nicely done, too.

So Bob and I have both talked about the StarGry kit that has historically been considered the most desirable set for this chassis. Unfortunately the manufacturer likely won't make a run until they have a substantial amount of orders ready or someone willing to purchase a higher quantity. With a lot of these old saws getting older daily it is likely that one may not even see another run of the StarGry, but that's just my speculation.

Whoah now hang on! This StarGry u speak of? I seen one of those in my hoard of stuff i scored from an old dealer. I could not find any info on it and thought it maybe went to a cut off saw from my reaseach. Did they only make 262 heads? Geez i hope i didnt pitch that im gonna dig for it and get some pics up after dinner if i have it. Fingers crossed

 

[Duke Thieroff]

StarGry is a manufacturer from Taiwan, although info about them online is sparse. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. They've made a number of different cylinders over the years. I'm sure some fellas can chime in about their experiences with the coveted SG 262 cylinder...

 

[JohnnyBlade]

StarGry is a manufacturer from Taiwan, although info about them online is sparse. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. They've made a number of different cylinders over the years. I'm sure some fellas can chime in about their experiences with the coveted SG 262 cylinder...

This is the first ive heard of them since i aquired the cylinder. Now there is a chance its for a 262 (which i need) this is music to my ears. Skipping dinner! Heading to the shop

 

[Duke Thieroff]

This is the first ive heard of them since i aquired the cylinder. Now there is a chance its for a 262 (which i need) this is music to my ears. Skipping dinner! Heading to the shop

Pics or you're just telling stories

 

[JohnnyBlade]

Pics or you're just telling stories

Please stop im gonna throw up i just dug through the boxes and my scrap box 3 times. Like something was gonna reappear if i checked again. It must of went out with the last scrap pile. I just figured itwas AM and no good.............. plus no info to be found. Just for my lack of sanity wer gonna say it was no good, scored and all fins wer cracked off

if by chance (which is a possibility) my youngest has it or hid it(i let him help with the parts washer) and i find it i will post up pics. Sorry to let you guys down

 

[Spike60]

1) Very nice.

2) Is this the same cylinder that features on sawsalvage.com?

3) Which standard cylinder was this based on?

4) excellent timing.

View attachment 227071

Not sure what you are asking in number 3. It's not a direct copy of the Mahle jugs that I have. That extra material on the flywheel side port casting doesn't allow for those 3 little cooling fins that are on the intake side of the Mahle casting. But this is also true of the star kit that I have on a 257. It actually looks an awful lot like the Star kit.

 

[Spike60]

StarGry is a manufacturer from Taiwan, although info about them online is sparse. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. They've made a number of different cylinders over the years. I'm sure some fellas can chime in about their experiences with the coveted SG 262 cylinder...

I ran about 10 tanks through my 257 with the Star kit and the .020 gasket. It was.... OK; maybe like the 257 kit it replaced. But obviously falling short of what a 262 should run like. Gasket delete was a night and day difference. Really takes off now. Gave another one to our tech Joel for his 262, and he went with no gasket from the start. Both saws are real good runners. Did a couple for customers and then Tilton shut down and that was it for the Star kits. When I took the jug off of mine to ditch the gasket, there was no signs of wear on the plating. 10 tanks isn't a lot by OEM standards, but it was good to see. The squish numbers on this new kit are lining up the same way, I'm hoping/expecting similar results. Maybe we don't have to keep looking for that Star kit anymore?

 

[Spike60]

Always loved the 262! Thanks for the input Bob @Spike60

Same here. And same for the 257, which always felt a little better in my hands. 262 was an early spring mount saw that didn't have the top mount from the handle to the cylinder like most everything that came after it. Often felt like something needed to ne tightened up. 257 would indeed vibrate more, but had a more solid feel IMO. 257's sold in larger numbers, so I'd expect to see as many of these kits land on 257's as 262's. Other than a different intake block and gasket, it bolts right on.

 

[JohnnyBlade]

I ran about 10 tanks through my 257 with the Star kit and the .020 gasket. It was.... OK; maybe like the 257 kit it replaced. But obviously falling short of what a 262 should run like. Gasket delete was a night and day difference. Really takes off now. Gave another one to our tech Joel for his 262, and he went with no gasket from the start. Both saws are real good runners. Did a couple for customers and then Tilton shut down and that was it for the Star kits. When I took the jug off of mine to ditch the gasket, there was no signs of wear on the plating. 10 tanks isn't a lot by OEM standards, but it was good to see. The squish numbers on this new kit are lining up the same way, I'm hoping/expecting similar results. Maybe we don't have to keep looking for that Star kit anymore?

Thanks Bob! Lol! Ill quit looking
just gonna drive me crazy knowing i "had" one and pitched it. The "OEM drum" must of been banging loud that day cuz im not usually one to throw away good stuff.

 

[Spike60]

Thanks Bob! Lol! Ill quit looking
just gonna drive me crazy knowing i "had" one and pitched it. The "OEM drum" must of been banging loud that day cuz im not usually one to throw away good stuff.

Glad you're not gonna spend all night out in the shop looking for that thing!

I'm always beating the OEM drum myself. Just that with this chassis the OEM option no longer exists. And unless we've uncovered it here, there hasn't been a decent AM option either. It's too good a chassis to be left without one. But at the same time, it's been 20 years since they made these saws. Like Chris pointed out, the field population gets smaller as time goes by, and that affects the demand for repair parts.

 

[Sawrain]

The chamfer in this current model is beautiful.

It surely is very visible in the pictures, can't see that one snagging.

Not sure what you are asking in number 3. It's not a direct copy of the Mahle jugs that I have. That extra material on the flywheel side port casting doesn't allow for those 3 little cooling fins that are on the intake side of the Mahle casting. But this is also true of the star kit that I have on a 257. It actually looks an awful lot like the Star kit.

I wasn't so clear, just wondered which cylinder it seemed most similar to, if any, which you have answered.

Edit, I also hadn't spotted the decomp passage at this stage.

 

[drf256]

Ports look pretty good, but I still don’t get why the AM can’t get the alignment of the upper and lower correct. All OEM have the entire upper shifted towards the intake side vs the AM which generally have it directly vertically above the lower.

I’d like to see more of the exhaust port. I’d also like to see the chamber and see if it’s plated or not.

Not sure if it’s an illusion, but the base through holes look like they aren’t aligned right? One looks like it’s threaded inside from the bolt rubbing.

Do the tunnels have the flywheel indent in them?

What is the “chrome” plating you speak of? Is it actually just chrome plated, or is it a form of silicon-carbide with more chrome than nickel in it? Do you think it will hold up like Nicasil?

@Spike60 , funny that you mention that the lowers only look larger because they are cleaner. That has been my experience as well. The KS jugs are made of a different alloy than the Mahle. It’s why everyone swears that the KS ND jugs have the biggest tunnels. The KS alloy is brighter and more stain restart than Mahle’s is. The biggest tunnels I’ve seen on a 262 jug are in the Mahle non-decomp, not the KS.

I wish I’d saved the pics I’ve taken over the years of these 262 jugs. They probably have the most differences in any oem jug I’ve played with over the years. Even more than the Stihl 046/460. The KS have square tight uppers whereas the Mahle are always larger and rounder looking.

Thank you both for the thread and the work. It’s great to have another option to go with.

 

[drf256]

Found a few old pics of the transfer direction I speak of. This is a KS jug which I think I raised the uppers on already.

The reason I bring it up is because it’s the one thing one can’t fix with porting.

I’d love to see how this AM jug times. It’s certainly one of the cleanest I have seen.

 

[Duke Thieroff]

Ports look pretty good, but I still don’t get why the AM can’t get the alignment of the upper and lower correct. All OEM have the entire upper shifted towards the intake side vs the AM which generally have it directly vertically above the lower.

I’d like to see more of the exhaust port. I’d also like to see the chamber and see if it’s plated or not.

Not sure if it’s an illusion, but the base through holes look like they aren’t aligned right? One looks like it’s threaded inside from the bolt rubbing.

Do the tunnels have the flywheel indent in them?

What is the “chrome” plating you speak of? Is it actually just chrome plated, or is it a form of silicon-carbide with more chrome than nickel in it? Do you think it will hold up like Nicasil?

@Spike60 , funny that you mention that the lowers only look larger because they are cleaner. That has been my experience as well. The KS jugs are made of a different alloy than the Mahle. It’s why everyone swears that the KS ND jugs have the biggest tunnels. The KS alloy is brighter and more stain restart than Mahle’s is. The biggest tunnels I’ve seen on a 262 jug are in the Mahle non-decomp, not the KS.

I wish I’d saved the pics I’ve taken over the years of these 262 jugs. They probably have the most differences in any oem jug I’ve played with over the years. Even more than the Stihl 046/460. The KS have square tight uppers whereas the Mahle are always larger and rounder looking.

Thank you both for the thread and the work. It’s great to have another option to go with.

There's a lot of details here---let me do my best to unpack, probably going to be a little lackluster.
I'm sure Bob can clear up the alignment question, I don't have the rig here currently.

As far as the metallurgy of the plating itself I'm not 100% sure of the content. Nikasil is the more modern coating, but chrome has historically been the industry standard since at least the 50s-60s. Even until this day OEMs are still regularly choosing chrome plated bores over nikasil. I'm not an engineer, a research scientist or a metallurgist so my foundation to argue against the industry standard and 70 years of industry knowledge is pretty weak. I could get some more details about the actual composition of the plating here in the future.

It seems like you've got a little more detailed knowledge on some of the different types of coatings and metallurgy than I do...
Would you care to share some of your experience when it comes to the different types of coatings?

 

[drf256]

I don’t have much expertise at all in coatings. @Definitive Dave has a lot, perhaps he will chine in.

I don’t know much about actual chrome plating in a saw jug. Nikasil is a trademark name from Mahle who apparently patented the process in the late 60’s. It uses Nickel as the metal ion to passively carry over Silicon Carbide and deposit it on the casting. The nickel rubs off and leaves the carbide exposed. That’s why jugs plating look really silver when new and tend to “grey” over time, also why one sees witness marks.

All silicon carbide plating isn’t the same. Dave learned that the hard way when he found that the Stainless 1mm ring on his Wiseco CCC racing pistons destroyed the OEM plating in Mahle Jugs made for Stihl. The Husky spec plating, on an OEM Mahle jug, lived and did fine in the same situation. It was from there that Dave found out that all plating, even done by the same manufacturer, was not the same. The OEM spec’d what it wanted and the foundry did it. It’s probably why 262 oem jugs are rarely scored vs their Stihl counterparts. At least that been my experience (unless the Husky’s bolts all fell out and they couldn’t be run as long-lol).

As for Chromium plating, it’s of interest to me because it could truly be a DIY process for us gearheads. Traditionally, chrome plating involves an initial copper plating, followed by nickel and then finally Chromium. The Chrome is more of a clearcoating than the bulk of the process.

I purchased the minimum I thought needed to attempt Nikasil at home. I’ve been electroplating for years, including Nickel plating. I came to find out that the process is anything but DIY. Even if you can get the emulsion to successfully plate on to the aluminum, you need special diamond honing equipment to get the plating to final specs. This part of the process is why many places won’t plate a blind cylinder. It the final hone they can’t do, not the plating itself.

 

[drf256]

@fossil

Can you shed some light on this? Fossil is a metallurgist IIRC