3 phase in a home shop

[Homemade]

Anyone have 3phase in there home shop? I’ve been kicking around the idea of using 3phase 4 wire wye for my house and shop. Having lighting, heating, and motor loads in 208 3ph and the rest in 120v single ph.

Now this was before LED lights, but I was told 3ph appliances pay for themselves in a short amount of time compared to 240v single phase.

Obviously we all know the advantages out in the garage/shop as far as air compressors, saws, drills and so on for efficiency when served with 3ph. And the opportunity to acquire equipment and not need a phase converter.

Checking with our local power company, they charge the same per amp-hour wether single or 3phase. But 3phase draws less amps for the same work, which is why it’s more cost effective.

So what’s your thoughts.

 

[Lightning Performance]

opcorn:

 

[Crzybowhntr]

Anyone have 3phase in there home shop? I’ve been kicking around the idea of using 3phase 4 wire wye for my house and shop. Having lighting, heating, and motor loads in 208 3ph and the rest in 120v single ph.

Now this was before LED lights, but I was told 3ph appliances pay for themselves in a short amount of time compared to 240v single phase.

Obviously we all know the advantages out in the garage/shop as far as air compressors, saws, drills and so on for efficiency when served with 3ph. And the opportunity to acquire equipment and not need a phase converter.

Checking with our local power company, they charge the same per amp-hour wether single or 3phase. But 3phase draws less amps for the same work, which is why it’s more cost effective.

So what’s your thoughts.

I thought this was going to be about a 3 point hitch. Lol

 

[Homemade]

I thought this was going to be about a 3 point hitch. Lol

Fixed

 

[jakethesnake]

Why not. Is it super expensive to have hooked up? Usually when I use three phase the actual source isn’t close by. We had to have the power company get it there. I’m thinking to get 480 volts here.

The cost to get the electric source to us made it more economical to buy large diesel generators

 

[Homemade]

I have 3phase running down the street where I plan to build. I know the power company will bury and hook up the first 100 ft free. But that is traditional 120/240 single phase. 3 phase has to be a engineer design project????

 

[jakethesnake]

I have no idea on that one. Local laws I’d say.
I would look into it deeper. If it’s not stupid expensive it may be worth it. If you get too expensive the return on using it would be sorta nulled out

 

[Homemade]

Right, after really putting some deep thought into it, the items I foresee running on 3phase would be air conditioner, air compressor, and maybe a lathe and mill. The lighting will be LED, the forced air furnace will be supplemented with a OWB, water heater will also be supplemented with owb. Dishwasher, and all other appliances will be used on a 120 single phase.
The few items on 3phase I could either purchase a phase converter or put a single phase motor on to get by.

 

[jakethesnake]

We use 480 for crop irrigation. It all depends where the three phase is vs a generator. We do have on now running off a converter. Around here that is the way to go. It may not be that expensive though if three phase is just right there, that close.
I’d talk to the electric company. You may be surprised as it may be relatively cheap. Or at least not outrageous. If that’s the case it may offset the cost of the other things you’d need like the converter and stuff. And other stuff

 

[Marshy]

I have 3phase running down the street where I plan to build. I know the power company will bury and hook up the first 100 ft free. But that is traditional 120/240 single phase. 3 phase has to be a engineer design project????

Do you know if it's 480v or 208v 3 ph?

 

[Homemade]

Do you know if it's 480v or 208v 3 ph?

https://ctlsys.com/support/electrical_service_types_and_voltages/

This website explains the options I would have as far as voltages go. You need three primary wires on the pole outside your house to have a three phase option. The secondary voltage that is sent to your house all depends on what you want and how the power company sets up the transformers.

I would have no need for 3 wire delta with 480v between the phases. Some smaller three phase motors can’t be wired for high (480) voltage. And I would have no single phase 120v to run normal appliances.

I was looking at 4 wire wye to get 3ph 208v- single phase 120v. To get 240 volt single phase, it’s still two hots but the equipment will only operate at 75% capacity. Example would be a 240v welder. I’d have to jack the amperage 25% or so to get the same performance.

The way to get true 240v single phase 120v single phase and 208v 3ph will be with 4 wire delta. It’s kind of an outdated system.

 

[J & L Creations]

Just really be careful. 480 can be very deadly and it will carbon track and short easily. Seems as I remember either 208 3ph or 240 3ph always had a high leg, I think it’s 208 3 ph, can’t remember which, meaning one of the 3ph legs of voltage coming in is higher in voltage than the other two, when you spit them up, it’s like 277 volts. Therefore you cannot use it for a control of any kind, it will blow controllers in appliances. Yes they use both these high voltages in commercial applications because they are economical to run because of the amperage used, the higher the voltage the less amps are used. Let me explain, in a residential environment not so much, because most everything (appliances, AC and heating systems ) run at the lower 120 or 240 volt single phase and not as dangerous. It takes special skill, tools and knowledge to operate and work with the higher voltages. Also the installation of 3 ph is cost prohibitive in a residential area. Paying all the extra to have 3 ph installed and not be able to use all three legs because of the high leg in lower voltage applications to me would be a waste of money. Most power companies want it that way not because of any of the above but because they want to get the most out of you money wise and I think you will find it very hard for them to cooperate with you. The other things you have to remember about 3 ph are that components cost more contractors, switches, lights, circuit breakers, 3 ph protection circuits and in motor applications. Then you have to worry about the high cost of maintenance of it all. If a leg of 3 ph drops out on a 3 ph motor the motor will stop turning and burn out, so therefore every motor you have that uses 3 ph will have to have drop out 3 ph protection. That in itself is cost prohibitive to have 3 ph and if you don’t have or buy the 3 ph protection circuits, you will be replacing motors, AC compressors and the cost just keeps rising. So are you really going to save money, no. This is from having worked with 3 ph and my own experiences with it through the years. My advise is to put your money into other things that will save you money and not cost you down the road. Well that’s my 4 cents.

 

[T.Roller]

Just really be careful. 480 can be very deadly and it will carbon track and short easily. Seems as I remember either 208 3ph or 240 3ph always had a high leg, I think it’s 208 3 ph, can’t remember which, meaning one of the 3ph legs of voltage coming in is higher in voltage than the other two, when you spit them up, it’s like 277 volts. Therefore you cannot use it for a control of any kind, it will blow controllers in appliances. Yes they use both these high voltages in commercial applications because they are economical to run because of the amperage used, the higher the voltage the less amps are used. Let me explain, in a residential environment not so much, because most everything (appliances, AC and heating systems ) run at the lower 120 or 240 volt single phase and not as dangerous. It takes special skill, tools and knowledge to operate and work with the higher voltages. Also the installation of 3 ph is cost prohibitive in a residential area. Paying all the extra to have 3 ph installed and not be able to use all three legs because of the high leg in lower voltage applications to me would be a waste of money. Most power companies want it that way not because of any of the above but because they want to get the most out of you money wise and I think you will find it very hard for them to cooperate with you. The other things you have to remember about 3 ph are that components cost more contractors, switches, lights, circuit breakers, 3 ph protection circuits and in motor applications. Then you have to worry about the high cost of maintenance of it all. If a leg of 3 ph drops out on a 3 ph motor the motor will stop turning and burn out, so therefore every motor you have that uses 3 ph will have to have drop out 3 ph protection. The that in itself is cost prohibitive to have 3 ph and if you don’t have or buy the 3 ph protection circuits, you will be replacing motors, AC compressors and the cost just keeps rising. So are you really going to save money, no. This is from having worked with 3 ph and my own experiences with it through the years. My advise is to put your money into other things that will save you money and not cost you down the road. Well that’s my 4 cents.

208 is the only one with a high leg. Reading phase to ground would read 120 on 2 phases and 208 on the other. You have to be very careful with this setup because of the high leg. I've seen guys wire In a receptacle and land the braker on the high leg. This will smoke any appliances you plug into it very quickly. Most three phase motors can be wired low voltage (208/240) or high voltage (480). I'm not sure about regulations on tapping out of 3 phase power for your home but balancing the load would be very difficult without using the high leg. @paragonbuilder could probably answer more questions.

 

[J & L Creations]

208 is the only one with a high leg. Reading phase to ground would read 120 on 2 phases and 208 on the other. You have to be very careful with this setup because of the high leg. I've seen guys wire In a receptacle and land the braker on the high leg. This will smoke any appliances you plug into it very quickly. Most three phase motors can be wired low voltage (208/240) or high voltage (480). I'm not sure about regulations on tapping out of 3 phase power for your home but balancing the load would be very difficult without using the high leg. @paragonbuilder could probably answer more questions.

I thought it to be 208. Yes I remember now the 277 was used for lighting. I have to agree wholeheartedly on everything here stated T. Roller. Yes balancing would be an issue as well.

 

[T.Roller]

I thought it to be 208. I have to agree wholeheartedly on everything here stated T. Roller. Yes balancing would be an issue as well.

We had a guy tie in a receptacle to the hi leg couple years back. He only checked with his pen tester to make sure it was hot and left it. Luckily the first thing plugged into it was a shop vac. I was told that thing was a bad sob for about 5 seconds then it let the smoke out lol

 

[Car wash guy]

208 is the only one with a high leg. Reading phase to ground would read 120 on 2 phases and 208 on the other. You have to be very careful with this setup because of the high leg. I've seen guys wire In a receptacle and land the braker on the high leg. This will smoke any appliances you plug into it very quickly. Most three phase motors can be wired low voltage (208/240) or high voltage (480). I'm not sure about regulations on tapping out of 3 phase power for your home but balancing the load would be very difficult without using the high leg. @paragonbuilder could probably answer more questions.

I've seen several high legs in Florida and some in Tennessee.The car washes I used to install ran off of 208 3 phase.The brushes was controlled by the amp draw.So that being said when wiring the machines I always put the high leg on leg three it kept it off of most of the sensitive components.I have seen several siemans vfds that was fed 2 legs of the 208 three phase and they made there own three phase out of the bottom.I picked up a 208 3 phase air compressor at my last install.Ive got some vfds here I'm going to try to run the compressor on one if I can find the right parameter settings.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

208 is the only one with a high leg. Reading phase to ground would read 120 on 2 phases and 208 on the other. You have to be very careful with this setup because of the high leg. I've seen guys wire In a receptacle and land the braker on the high leg. This will smoke any appliances you plug into it very quickly. Most three phase motors can be wired low voltage (208/240) or high voltage (480). I'm not sure about regulations on tapping out of 3 phase power for your home but balancing the load would be very difficult without using the high leg. @paragonbuilder could probably answer more questions.

If it’s a wye transformer, all legs are equal. It’s the delta’s that have a high leg.
208 wye for example has 208 between legs, and 120 between each leg and the center tap.

A 240v delta has a 208 high leg and looks like this

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[paragonbuilder]

We had a guy tie in a receptacle to the hi leg couple years back. He only checked with his pen tester to make sure it was hot and left it. Luckily the first thing plugged into it was a shop vac. I was told that thing was a bad sob for about 5 seconds then it let the smoke out lol

Yep. Don’t take long... lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[T.Roller]

If it’s a wye transformer, all legs are equal. It’s the delta’s that have a high leg.
208 wye for example has 208 between legs, and 120 between each leg and the center tap.

A 240v delta has a 208 high leg and looks like this

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for the illustration. Shows it much better than I could explain it for sure.

 

[Car wash guy]

Yep. Don’t take long... lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most 208 three phase motors will run fine with a high leg.You will never know it.Sometimes on older transformers on the pole you can get it adjusted down to meet your tolerances if the power company is willing to do it.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X103F using Tapatalk