044 project

[dall]

yes matt the 12 mm crank will work in the 10mm cases and @Mastermind said they run better with the 12mm crank in them because of case volume

 

[MattG]

yes matt the 12 mm crank will work in the 10mm cases and @Mastermind said they run better with the 12mm crank in them because of case volume

Yo! Thanks very much for that one Dall....my instinct told me it should work...onwards and upwards I guess...

 

[MustangMike]

I had heard the case needs to be trimmed to use a 12mm crank, is this incorrect???

I know a 10 mm case is supposed to have a bit less volume.

 

[dall]

I had heard the case needs to be trimmed to use a 12mm crank, is this incorrect???

I know a 10 mm case is supposed to have a bit less volume.

up next to the top where the rod someone should have pictures @Mastermind

 

[MattG]

I had heard the case needs to be trimmed to use a 12mm crank, is this incorrect???

I know a 10 mm case is supposed to have a bit less volume.

I imagine that could well be incorrect, Mike. I will confirm in a week or so.

In that piccy I embedded in #39 the crankwheels are both 27.5 mm across. And another piccy in that post (the quality is cr@p I know...) shows that I had a look at dropping (but not pressing) the 12mm one in, and it seems all good from the radius point of view.

(Sorry about edit quality, but I'm heading for the hills now, anyways....)

 

[Adirondackstihl]

The clearance issue with a 12mm crank in a 10mm case is not the crank journals.
The issue is with the big end of the rod scraping the inside of the base at or near BDC.

 

[huskihl]

The clearance issue with a 12mm crank in a 10mm case is not the crank journals.
The issue is with the big end of the rod scraping the inside of the base at or near BDC.

From what I've gathered, it's a bit of both. On mine, an early red lever with 4mm recoil bolts, a 440 rod at the rod bearing hits the case bottom at bdc. On later 5mm recoil bolt 044's, the 440 counterweights rub the case bottom at tdc.

Could have been a fluke. It was my one and only personal experience trying them

 

[MattG]

From what I've gathered, it's a bit of both. On mine, an early red lever with 4mm recoil bolts, a 440 rod at the rod bearing hits the case bottom at bdc. On later 5mm recoil bolt 044's, the 440 counterweights rub the case bottom at tdc.

Could have been a fluke. It was my one and only personal experience trying them

Weird. Guess I should really try to fit my 12mm crank pretty soon. However, in the light of what you guys have just said - it seems strange that for all of the 044 range there is only one single crankcase gasket made/listed:

1128 029 0500

which suggests that there can't be a fundamental issue ?

 

[MattG]

Anyway I got my 460 P+C yesterday, slight clearance issue getting it on:




but then again the numbers stamped on the out side stick out big time - first job is to take them off!

 

[Adamski]

Anyway I got my 460 P+C yesterday, slight clearance issue getting it on:

View attachment 78429

View attachment 78430
but then again the numbers stamped on the out side stick out big time - first job is to take them off!

View attachment 78431

How much was a new OEM jug?

Sent from my HTC One M8s using Tapatalk

 

[huskihl]

Weird. Guess I should really try to fit my 12mm crank pretty soon. However, in the light of what you guys have just said - it seems strange that for all of the 044 range there is only one single crankcase gasket made/listed:

1128 029 0500

which suggests that there can't be a fundamental issue ?

If it hits by .010", it's easily remedied, but it still hits. We didn't say it wouldn't work, just that it may require clearancing. Still wouldn't require a different gasket.

 

[dall]

the big bearing area is not at the gasket area it is off to the side set the crank in and see if you do need to clearance the case it wont take much if you do

 

[huskihl]

the big bearing area is not at the gasket area it is off to the side set the crank in and see if you do need to clearance the case it wont take much if you do

Or he could just assemble the whole thing the way it is. I recommend giving her hell on the first pull

 

[MattG]

Arrgh!!
It's time for me to eat some humble pie fellas.....you guys are right....I tried putting the crank in and yeah it's tight. See for yourselves:



and now after I took the crank out again, you can see where it scuffed:


basically where the big end runs in the bottom (and also I think theres a tiny scuff further in, where the edge of the balance weight would rub - but perhaps that was there already).

Anyway, I guess it's a case of some very careful dremel work, I wouldn't be surprised if even as much as 0.25mm is overkill. Still, trying to be that meticulous will be a challenge (for me at least)!

 

[MattG]

Another quick question....when you reinstall the crank the manual just stays:



I'm probably worrying bout nothing, but surely if you over do it, you'll end up with a tight/broken bearing? Is there any rough guide, like stopping when cant get more than a certain thickness of feeler gauge between the side of the crankwheel and the inside of the inner main bearing race?

 

[huskihl]

Arrgh!!
It's time for me to eat some humble pie fellas.....you guys are right....I tried putting the crank in and yeah it's tight. See for yourselves:

View attachment 78466

and now after I took the crank out again, you can see where it scuffed:

View attachment 78467
basically where the big end runs in the bottom (and also I think theres a tiny scuff further in, where the edge of the balance weight would rub - but perhaps that was there already).

Anyway, I guess it's a case of some very careful dremel work, I wouldn't be surprised if even as much as 0.25mm is overkill. Still, trying to be that meticulous will be a challenge (for me at least)!

You clearly didn't pull hard enough. Lol

Another quick question....when you reinstall the crank the manual just stays:

View attachment 78477

I'm probably worrying bout nothing, but surely if you over do it, you'll end up with a tight/broken bearing? Is there any rough guide, like stopping when cant get more than a certain thickness of feeler gauge between the side of the crankwheel and the inside of the inner main bearing race?

I stick a .025" feeler gauge in between when I assemble. When it gets down to that on both sided and the case isn't tight yet, I downsize accordingly.

Install the clutch side bearing in the case first using the oil pump as a stop. Otherwise, things out by the drum and sprocket don't work so well

 

[MattG]

the big bearing area is not at the gasket area it is off to the side set the crank in and see if you do need to clearance the case it wont take much if you do

What do'ya reckon - absolutely no more than 0.25mm at the most? i.e. at the bottom where the big end rubs the most?

 

[dall]

Just knock the paint off and try

 

[mdavlee]

Is it time to say toss in dumpster and get a husky yet?

I put the flywheel side in first and the clutch side bearing on the crank. Install the crank into the flywheel case half then the other case half over the bearing with it warmed up to 350°. I have had them push the bearing out and have to reset it with a socket and heat gun if I put the clutch side bearing in first.

 

[MattG]

Is it time to say toss in dumpster

Definitely not!