Which cyl hone needed

[Shane¹]

I've read both threads about your weedeater. You didn't say "why" you think the cylinder needs to be honed. It would seem that you have knowledge of auto or tractor engines that need honing to break the glaze. Plated cylinders are not the same and neither are their methods. I think more information is needed here.

I would agree with this statement would be nice to know why you want to hone it. I don't personally think a super quick hone would ruin it but if you go to long it definitely can. If it has transfer that needs to be cleaned off before you would ever think about hitting it quickly with a hone. All you are doing with the hone is putting some cross hatch in the cylinder to help seat the rings which you could easily do with some scotch Brite too. Please post up some pictures of the cylinder so we can help you get it squared away

 

[Stump Shot]

I would agree with this statement would be nice to know why you want to hone it. I don't personally think a super quick hone would ruin it but if you go to long it definitely can. If it has transfer that needs to be cleaned off before you would ever think about hitting it quickly with a hone. All you are doing with the hone is putting some cross hatch in the cylinder to help seat the rings which you could easily do with some scotch Brite too. Please post up some pictures of the cylinder so we can help you get it squared away

Yes, a hone is not for removing aluminum transfer, other means must be used to remove the transfer directly.
Then again a person could ruin a cylinder with a flap wheel too, but to this end, nothing ventured, nothing gained as it was already no good before you tried to fix it.
Scoring through the plating is a deal breaker as well.

 

[srcarr52]

I ordered a alum oxide ball hone, but if the cyl is plated I was wondering if I needed silicon carbide instead.

Silicon carbide ball hone will deglaze the cylinder pretty quickly. Aluminum oxide will hardly scratch the nicasil plating but it will be ok to put a slight cross hatch in the cylinder. 10-20s is fine, run at a slower speed to the balls don't beat up the port edges.

Like previously said, deglazing isn't really necessary on chainsaws for the rings to seat. They'll wear in soon enough. But a light honing isn't going to ruin it either.

People on here hear "hone" and freak out assuming that you're trying to remove aluminum transfer. Which is a quick way to ruin a cylinder that could have been saved using a split mandrel and some aluminum oxide emery cloth.

 

[stretch5881]

Yes, I am a Powerplant Engineer 1st class, motorcycle mechanic, refrig tech, and heavy metals wastewater treatment plant operator.

Reason to hone is for light cyl cleanup and ring seating . Caber rings.

So, back on subject, why would an alum oxide hone, run for perhaps 10-20 seconds ruin a cylinder, but grinding on ports doesn't harm the plating?

Some might run an aggressive grit material, and run it too long of duration.

I'm all ears on this subject, because I have 2 or more cyls to do.

Thank you much.

To answer your question about grinding ports, look up cylinder porting on this site. A good teacher, I am not.

 

[scooterbum]

To answer your question about grinding ports, look up cylinder porting on this site. A good teacher, I am not.

I have watched some cyl porting, however, my question still remains; why does porting, which appears aggressive, not harm the cyl.?

 

[farminkarman]

When porting a cylinder, the burr spends most of the time in the port. Care must be taken when raising, widening, or lowering a port at the plating wall. It is easy for a burr to jump out of the port and ding up the plating. The port opening at the plating is also where some AM cylinders cause trouble with plating wanting to lift or flake off. Any OEM cylinder I have ported has not had issues with plating lifting or flaking off.

 

[stretch5881]

I have watched some cyl porting, however, my question still remains; why does porting, which appears aggressive, not harm the cyl.?

When porting, you are removing aluminum to get the desired shape. Then a small stone or burr is used to smooth the edges of the port plating so the ring does not catch the edge.

 

[bretts]

I used to use a sized ball hone, I would use plenty of lube and be very quick (maybe 2-3 strokes) and call it done, that's what I used to do in the shop, at my home shop I use a scotch brite pad on a mandrel I made up.

 

[1Snowcat]

https://youtube.com/@mastermind7864

Here ya go, if you can't watch this I can't help you....

 

[scooterbum]

https://youtube.com/@mastermind7864

Here ya go, if you can't watch this I can't help you....

From your link I see videos of cutting action. I don't doubt the efficacy of porting a saw, rather questioning why honing a cyl lightly is a problem, while breaking the aluminum to plating interface at the ports, while grinding, does not present a greater hazard to the cyl. What am I missing here, with ballhone vs grinder?

 

[stretch5881]

From your link I see videos of cutting action. I don't doubt the efficacy of porting a saw, rather questioning why honing a cyl lightly is a problem, while breaking the aluminum to plating interface at the ports, while grinding, does not present a greater hazard to the cyl. What am I missing here, with ballhone vs grinder?

Cleaning up the edges of the plating with a tiny burr vs. risking getting the hone stones caught on the edge of the ports = a powerful engine vs. a doorstop cylinder. I can't think of a simpler way to say it.
In the youtube page you went to, if you scrolled all the way to the right on the first line of videos, Randy shows a great method of cleaning up a cylinder.

 

[Shane¹]

The key here is lightly won't hurt it but too much will

 

[stretch5881]

First test it on a cylinder that you don't plan to use.

 

[Al Smith]

There are tricks for transfer removal .Mine is "easy off " oven cleaner and 3M scotch -brite and elbow grease . A normal hone such as a brake cylinder type or a ball hone will not correct for ovality and taper and if it's plated there won't be much else it's already beyond saving .An iron or steel cylinder requires a Lisle type precision hone to correct those problems .

 

[Al Smith]

Besides that it's a weed wacker engine not a 1927 Harley .Put it back toghter using the one ring you have and run it .Might run forever if you put some oil in the fuel mix .If it flies apart like a dollar watch put the parts in a box and put the box on the shelf eventually a doner will show up .Could be a freebie or a 5 dollar special somebody couldn't get started .I came to the conclusion years ago you can't save them all .

 

[1Snowcat]

Here you go this is part 1...

Most the guys on this site have tried the most tried and true methods of souping up a saw along with the wildest ways to try something different I would NOT recommend doing what you are thinking about doing with a ball hone, or a 3 winged contraption that spins stones in the cylinder...

But you might know something I don't... I worked for a local Yamaha dealership for over 10 yrs

I certainly dont know it all...

Most modern small engines 2 stroke and 4 stroke have -chrome plated cylinders- (the same type cylinder that Randy (Mastermind) shows cleaning up in the video if you watch it... using a scotch brite pad snuggly fitting into the cylinder bore...
Yamaha, Honda, Kawasaki, Seadoo, Polaris, Husky, Stihl, Dolmar etc..
Basically the plating is HARD but it will CHIP if you NICK an edge.... You have been warned the ole ball hone is great at springing into the port and catching the edge... ask me how I know because my BOSS the owner of the shop wrecked a cylinder on a Yamaha street bike in about 2.5 seconds using the ole ball hone... it was a costly mistake to say the least the ball hone went in the trash shortly afterward... Chrome plated cylinders and ball hones or stones dont like each other well...

 

[Al Smith]

In this converastion of hones I might point out a Lisle small engine hone .Most people have never seen one,I own one that was given to me .It has the stones for both iron and plated .I'm not exactly certain why for plating but there must be a reason .Look at the price then you'll see why most people don't own one https://www.ebay.com/itm/2950512782...4KFgFxChp5V5zJn0lhBd/N0bU=|tkp:Bk9SR_q69q-5Yg

 

[scooterbum]

Hello fellas,

I have concluded work on this Ryobi ss30 system powerhead and drive. I would like to thank all that have contributed to this thread, as all info was VERY helpful.

I grinded and lapped the exhaust port to smooth and clean up any irregularties in the casting. I stayed away from the cylinder to casting interface.

The cylinder did not show any aluminum transfer, buy there were black deposits around the ports. I cleaned the cyl in mineral spirits to prep for honing. I used a Brush Research aluminum oxide 320 grit to hone it. The honing went well, with hone mounted in a minilathe chuck, cylinder hand-held, and lathe ran at 40 and then 60 rpms, three sessions about 10 seconds each, cleaning cyl between sessions. I made sure that I allowed a little delay time with hone near top of cyl to be sure there would be no ridge for rings to hit. Black spots gone, nice cross hatch.

I installed the self-sealing base gasket, then the side CC cover gasket with anerobic sealer. As this machine WAS a vibrater (no longer is), I added vibratite to threaded fasteners.

The new rings performed well with this nice cross hatch lap job. I had compression from the gitgo.

I could not find new s-style clutch plates, as they are unobtanium, so I had to do some work to my existing plates to get them to work, as they would not rotate the driven devices. After machining the plates, still no-workie. So I mounted a washer between the plates. Voila! No friction between plates.

This machine now runs better than when new from factory! More HP as evidenced by rotational speed increase of devices.

Found some 110 octane gas at the VP Racing gas station nearby, added stabilizer and Cam2 oil.

I am well pleased thus far. After a few more runs of the machine, I will add the snowthrower attachment to my quiver, $150 at Home Depot.

Many thanks to all!

Mike

 

[scooterbum]

And, a special thanks to Shane for sticking with it to show me where to find the correct rings! i wouldn't have found those on my own.