STIHL The Official Stihl Chainsaws Thread

[Dub11]

Anyone remove clutch and flywheel without cylinder installed? How did you do it? Wood blocks in the case?

Saw in question is an 064


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Impact cordless or electic preferably.

 

[Al Smith]

--block the crankshaft with a piece of hardwood---

 

[brandonstclair20]

I have a stihl MS440 non-decomp saw that has never been rebuilt and it will jerk the starter handle from your hand. I have a 038 magnum that is the same way. I have a non-decomp 044 that I completely rebuilt and while it has good compression, it does not jerk the handle out of your hand. What could be the difference? Thanks piston is new and oem.
The 044 runs good by the way.

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[Al Smith]

The cure for a mule kicker is a D-handle .Don't play with it ,pull that thing like you mean it .You think an 038 mag is bad,have an 084 come back on you some time .

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Had an 066 with the same problem. Changed the coil. No jerk back now. Have an MS460 here with the same problem. Just enough slop in the keyway let me retard the timing a hair. Seems to have minimized the jerk back quite ait but it still wants to kick when it gets hot. Luckily it has a decomp. Not so lucky with the 066.

If you look at the coil closely on that 440 you may find it has scrapes and gouges (or even bent laminate) from coming in contact with the flywheel somewhere along the line. To make sure it's actually a timing issue giving you grief, pull it over with the switch shaft in the off position or pull the plug wire. If it still kicks back you've got some mean ass compression! You can also try pulling it over to just past TDC. Then give it everything you've got with a little more momentum on your side before TDC. Seems like we typically tend to pull a saw over to right before TDC before giving it the main yank. Just sorta unconsciously natural as we make sure the pawls engage er somethin'..., I guess?

The coil is a 0000-400-1300 for both the 038 and the MS440. Used on everything from the 024 through the 064 and should be easy to come by. Aftermarket knock-offs are like 10~12 bux if you want to try that route instead. You can use your 044 coil for testing the 038 and MS440. They should be the same coils, though not all 1300's look exactly alike. Obviously ensure the flywheel is correctly aligned and the air gap is within tolerance.

Had a Mac Super250 that gave me similar fits with compression and kicking back. Ignition was fine, just had boatloads of compression and I couldn't pull it over enough to draw fuel and fire. Looking back on it I'm guessing it was oil in the case from sitting so long. What got me over that hump was to prime through the plug hole until it stayed running enough to burn off the residual contents in the case. Still great compression but I can at least pull it over now!

Anyway, good luck with it. Be interested in what you find.

​

 

[Al Smith]

My favorite mule kicker story is good ole Fred AKA Stihl Boy .At Bill Poors GTG he tried out my 038 mag which is high compression .Little did I know he had flipped the switch and the mag was hot .Pulled it over real slow and it likened to pulled him through the recoil assembly .I reproved him Fred ,damnit .If a saw has a D-Handle that should tell you something .I haven't seen Fred in a number of years but I'll bet that experience stuck with him .

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

My first GTG and I actually met you there..., unfortunately before I had the same appreciation for the old Macs as I do today. You certainly had a thorough lineup as I recall. And I don't remember the 038, but I do remember Fred. Had his nose so far up Snelling's butt it was embarrassing to witness. LOL Not much of a sense of humor, either. Banned me from AS for making a joke about his junk leaking oil and fuel all over Bill's lawn. I hope your 038 bit him real good.

 

[brandonstclair20]

Had an 066 with the same problem. Changed the coil. No jerk back now. Have an MS460 here with the same problem. Just enough slop in the keyway let me retard the timing a hair. Seems to have minimized the jerk back quite ait but it still wants to kick when it gets hot. Luckily it has a decomp. Not so lucky with the 066.

If you look at the coil closely on that 440 you may find it has scrapes and gouges (or even bent laminate) from coming in contact with the flywheel somewhere along the line. To make sure it's actually a timing issue giving you grief, pull it over with the switch shaft in the off position or pull the plug wire. If it still kicks back you've got some mean ass compression! You can also try pulling it over to just past TDC. Then give it everything you've got with a little more momentum on your side before TDC. Seems like we typically tend to pull a saw over to right before TDC before giving it the main yank. Just sorta unconsciously natural as we make sure the pawls engage er somethin'..., I guess?

The coil is a 0000-400-1300 for both the 038 and the MS440. Used on everything from the 024 through the 064 and should be easy to come by. Aftermarket knock-offs are like 10~12 bux if you want to try that route instead. You can use your 044 coil for testing the 038 and MS440. They should be the same coils, though not all 1300's look exactly alike. Obviously ensure the flywheel is correctly aligned and the air gap is within tolerance.

Had a Mac Super250 that gave me similar fits with compression and kicking back. Ignition was fine, just had boatloads of compression and I couldn't pull it over enough to draw fuel and fire. Looking back on it I'm guessing it was oil in the case from sitting so long. What got me over that hump was to prime through the plug hole until it stayed running enough to burn off the residual contents in the case. Still great compression but I can at least pull it over now!

Anyway, good luck with it. Be interested in what you find.

​

When I first got the ms440 it had lots of oil in the cylinder, it did get better once I got the oil out. It seems that if I pull it with authority, it doesn’t jerk the rope out of your hand. The 038 is down getting a new fuel line. I only ran it once. It was sold for scrap metal because the starter broke and someone couldn’t find another one. I will definitely use your information to troubleshoot the saw. Thanks!


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[brandonstclair20]

I picked up this a few weeks ago. After looking at the serial number I believe it is an early 12mm. Is this what I have?

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[Canadian farm boy]

I picked up this a few weeks ago. After looking at the serial number I believe it is an early 12mm. Is this what I have?

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Yuppers, that's an early 12mm 044

 

[Al Smith]

I have no idea what happened to Fred .He broke ties with A-S for a while .Bill had several GTG's but he too is off the radar as are a lot of people . The old A-S crowd kind of dispersed in all directions .I'll save everybody the sermon of why because I really don't care at this point .At any rate the event I was referring to the weather was fairly warm and we were cutting cants in back of Bills place .I was trying to show somebody how to tune a reed valve McCulloch when Fred tried to get his wrist broken .He didn't thank heavens but it nailed him good .

Amusing thing too,Bill who is tidy about everything had a little ATV with a trailer he gathered firewood with .In a scabbard on the side of that thing hung a PM 610 McCulloch .Bill has all kinds of saws ,some relatively fast but that was his firewooder .WTG Bill

 

[Al Smith]

Rambling on,off the subject as usual .One of Bills event which was colder than well diggers behind he held things in his front lawn which is huge .Fred had some kind of a gear drive with a 1/2" chain which of course Fred being Fred he had no idea how to file it .He gave it his best shot with a under sized file .I took him under wing with the proper size which is 1/4" and it did pretty good then I gave him the Oberg file .Try and find a 1/4" or any Oberg files these days .Ha,I got em ,gonna keep them too ,mine all mine It was that event the 084 bit me before I had a D-handle on it .I could predict the weather in advance for about two years after than snafu

 

[Tim N]

Finally found a HD filter backing plate and cover for my 084

 

[ARPILOT]

my latest addition, picked up a used 362.....haven't got to use much yet, but already liking the spring AV on the first outing

 

[FergusonTO35]

Well, the little 024 now starts easily and cuts great. I'm still having trouble getting it to idle continuously though. Coming out of the cut, it will idle down ok for about 10 seconds, then you can hear the rpms drop and you know you need to pull the trigger or it will die. As an experiment, I turned the idle up way high to where the chain is spinning and cut with it a few minutes. Problem solved, but obviously not a good idea.

I think I am having trouble getting just the right combo of low speed mixture and idle air flow. This saw seems way more sensitive to it than my Dolmar and Echoes are. I'm using an unbranded Zama replacement from Definitive Dave and currently the low speed screw is out 1.5 turns, high speed is out 1.75 turns. Fuel filter, fuel lines, and air filter are new. I'm thinking, maybe I should take an occasion to cut with it for at least 30 minutes and between cuts just reduce the idle speed a bit at a time until I find the sweet spot. That's all I can think of at this point. The saw passed vacuum and pressure tests no problem.

 

[RI Chevy]

Did you try to use the LA adjustment to stop the chain from spinning at idle?
I know you probably did already, but just thinking outloud here. The L and LA kind of go hand-in-hand.
You could also have the puddling issue. The little lip on the intake port that causes fuel puddling which causes an idle issue.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Yes, I have adjusted the LA screw up, down, backwards, and sideways. Currently, it is set way too fast and the chain turns but at least it stays running. How can I tell if I have fuel puddling, and what is the cure? The saw starts easily and accelerates and cuts great which would seem to rule out alot of problems. Usually, I just adjust the low and/or LA screw a bit and it's good to go but this one is being really fussy.

Now that I think about it, I had a bit of this problem after I rebuilt my little Echo CS-3000. As it turned out, the saw just did not like the factory idle speed spec. Bumped it up about 500 rpm (chain still doesn't move) and it's been good ever since.

 

[RI Chevy]

I personally would go back to the 1 and 1 preset. Readjust the LA screw so the saw starts and idles. It is a fine line there. Then adjust up from there as necessary. Use the tach for a ballpark guide.
The LA hits on the choke a bit. If you have the 024/026 manual handy, it gives you good guidance on the carb adjustment starting points.
Just trying to help.

 

[FergusonTO35]

Will do, thanks. Did not know that about the choke, will have to check it out!

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Once it's warmed up try dialing in the idle without the air filter. Can't remember what you ended up using there. And speaking of air filters and the choke, double check the position and movement of the choke, the integrity and placement of the spring, and that the air filter is completely snapped together. Think I'd also go back to the OEM carb again as a comparison if the air filter situation checks out ok and there's no significant improvement in the idle without it. The original carb was a WT22 as I recall? Next best carb for an 026 after a WT194 IMHO.