STIHL MS461 problems

[deye223]

gday all ..... on my advice my son bought a 461 on Monday as I have heard nothing but good reports about them
anyway yesterday we put 3 tanks through it and I think we have a couple of problems .

1st up I tried to tune it but the tach just went nuts (so I assume it has a limited coil) and I also found the damn thing has limiting caps on the carb .

the saw has a big flat spot when transitioning from low to high speed jet and I cant tune it out ...... and the other thing i noticed was about 2 tanks in it was hot to the point that I couldn't hold my hand on top of the engine cover it was to hot , now my 460 261 have never been this hot but they were both ported my randy and this is the 1st stock saw I have had my hands on in 7 years .

TIA and help would be appreciated .

cheers D

 

[Dub11]

So it should be under warranty so I'd take it back to the dealer and let the straighten it out. But yeah sounds like it needs a good retune. Your tach should be going crazy unless its picking up the coil "limiting" it. At least that's what I've experienced.

But yeah it sounds like it's really lean and someone didn't tune it right before putting the limiters on.

 

[Bigmac]

They are limited coils, 13.5k I believe. Pull the limiter caps on the carb and try retune. Is it a new or used saw? Mine runs great with base gasket delete muffler mod and dual port muffler cover. I do remember reading that the 461 came with two different jet sizes, if it has the smaller jet it could be causing more of an issue than normal

 

[deye223]

will see what I can work out as it is a 2 hour trip to the dealer .

 

[huskyboy]

Good old fashioned retune and mm is what I’d do first

 

[deye223]

yeah i've never had a saw with limiters before so will just have to pull them
and then do the coil swap with a 460 660 job

 

[Dub11]

yeah i've never had a saw with limiters before so will just have to pull them
and then do the coil swap with a 460 job

Iirc you can trim the tab on the limiters so it stihl looks untampered.

 

[deye223]

yep I watched some on the tube you pull them trim the lug with a knife and push them back in

 

[deye223]

this my son cutting some ribbon gum (bloody hard stuff) running .404 chain
I gather the heat is it's just to lean .

 

[blsnelling]

Most saws do have limited coils and they all have limiting caps on the needles. No surprises there. It's also no surprise that it's too lean. Remove the limiter caps, tune the saw, then re-install the caps.

 

[Bigmac]

this my son cutting some ribbon gum (bloody hard stuff) running .404 chain
I gather the heat is it's just to lean .

Ya it just needs a little more fuel and muffler opened up! If you are worried about your warranty, you could trim the limiter tabs, or just reindex them and reinstall as mentioned already, and add a dual port cover and keep the stock cover if it so you can take it back to stock. Being new it will run a touch hotter too, what mix and ratio are you running?

 

[smokey7]

His sig shows mobil 40:1. It does sound lean on the low. It is probably lean up top too. Congrats on the new saw... Do us a favor and take a quick pic of the piston in a few places in the exhaust port. If its getting that hot it may have some damage to the topend already well unless the mobil is so good it saved the saw. To hot to touch the top cover is a very very hot topend

 

[deye223]

Ya it just needs a little more fuel and muffler opened up! If you are worried about your warranty, you could trim the limiter tabs, or just reindex them and reinstall as mentioned already, and add a dual port cover and keep the stock cover if it so you can take it back to stock. Being new it will run a touch hotter too, what mix and ratio are you running?

I run a new saw at 25:1 for the first 5 or 6 tanks

 

[Bigmac]

I run a new saw at 25:1 for the first 5 or 6 tanks

Copy that, that can cause it to run lean on fuel at that ratio if you can’t open it up because of the limiter caps. I have seen a lot of quad two-strokes burn up because of mix/ratio changes without retune...just my experience

 

[MustangMike]

461s Do inherently run hot (stock), it is part of the compromise to meet emissions. That is why they have that saddle near the crank (the only purpose is to redirect the air/fuel to cool the piston.

I don't own one, but have worked on a good # of them for Tree Pros. I remove the limiters from the carb, and drill two 1/4" holes in the high right side of the muffler cover (as close to the seam as possible).

After the muff mod, my starting tune is Lo one turn out, Hi 1 + 1/8. Often I don't have to touch it from there, but always check by ear.

The resulting saw will run stronger, cooler and will be more reliable (as a result of running cooler, heat is the enemy). I don't alter the muffler baffle.

I have done this simple mod on saws for 4 different local pros, and they are all very happy with it. Of course you can do more, but this is a good simple start.

460s also respond very well to these same mods.

 

[deye223]

thanks all .......... and I forgot to say I turned the low side 1/2 a turn out to try and richen things up a bit

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Hi deye 223, your quite new here, and was wondering if you had come across this.
Mastermind meets the ms461....linky below

http://opeforum.com/threads/mastermind-meets-the-ms461.506/

 

[deye223]

yep ive known randy for about 8 years he ported my 261 and 460
I used to be on AS .......... not new to saws just new to all this choked up
limited rubbish . just imagine a new 461 from the factory with open
carbie dual port front cover and a squish of about .020" pulling 180psi
now this would be a good starting point on a great saw .

this my 460 tuned to 14000rpm I love it great work saw ...

 

[RI Chevy]

Nice 460!
Are you still running 25:1 mix? In the 461?

 

[deye223]

I only run that on run in ...... about 5 or 6 tanks then everything gets 40:1
that saw loves 14200 to 14300 rpm but our wood is hard stuff and some cut
times are long so it gets 13800 when the 32" bar comes out and on average
wood I just leave it at 14000 .......
I have had that saw for 7 years and it is still in good nick its the one in the middle
its dirty but in good nick .

I have had the 261 longer and I wish I had a dollar for every mile it has done in my ute