Stihl Hexa Chain/File

[davidwyby]

Excellent point

 

[davidwyby]

So

There is another way…

Take a round file and grind the side flat to ride the floor of the tooth until you get the tooth profile you want. I’ve done it with 1/4” files for 3/8”. Sent some out to try haven’t heard back. Used it a few times myself, seemed to work.

 

[Squish9]

So

There is another way…

Take a round file and grind the side flat to ride the floor of the tooth until you get the tooth profile you want. I’ve done it with 1/4” files for 3/8”. Sent some out to try haven’t heard back. Used it a few times myself, seemed to work.

That's an interesting idea. In Stihls patent for Hexa, about half the document describes and shows a file like that. They had a small flat section in the bottom of the gullet that it rode on.

The benifits they list in there are all focused on the ease of sharpening and more precise results. Unfortunately the marketing department took hold of things and made some claims that people believed. Their focus was on making something that allows most people to sharpen more consistently and easily. I think they succeeded.

I don't like the price of the files and I don't think it cuts better than a properly sharpened, round filed chain but if we look at how many different tools and devices are made to help people sharpen, it's clear the majority of people can't accurately file chain. I know I can't and I have had a lot of practice

 

[el33t]

So

There is another way…

Take a round file and grind the side flat to ride the floor of the tooth until you get the tooth profile you want. I’ve done it with 1/4” files for 3/8”. Sent some out to try haven’t heard back. Used it a few times myself, seemed to work.

In the 1980s, Oregon even took the trouble to patent a "cutting link for saw chain having guide surface for sharpening". "Just in case" they indicated several file shapes.

That's an interesting idea. In Stihls patent for Hexa, about half the document describes and shows a file like that. They had a small flat section in the bottom of the gullet that it rode on.

In addition to that patent for the cutter link (and files) (e.g. US 10,456,946) they obtained a separate patent for the file(s) (e.g. US 11,057,589).

 

[lehman live edge slab]

Looking at oregons 1980’s designs they look like they would have issues clearing chips out on even longer firewood cutting bars like 20-25”

 

[Squish9]

In the 1980s, Oregon even took the trouble to patent a "cutting link for saw chain having guide surface for sharpening". "Just in case" they indicated several file shapes.

View attachment 437270



In addition to that patent for the cutter link (and files) (e.g. US 10,456,946) they obtained a separate patent for the file(s) (e.g. US 11,057,589).

View attachment 437271

I had not seen the Oregon one before and it's an interesting idea. The small shelf that gets created when square filing acts as a basic form of guide once the same file has been used a few time. It's not perfect because you need to lower it down as it wears back but it is easier to align the file once that shape has been formed.

It's clearly been an issue that chain manufacturers have been trying to solve for a long time. I'm sure there are more designs out there

 

[species8472]

Got to ask your self what makes a chain cut?
It's only the top of cutter that cuts wood.
Don't matter what's under the top one mm or so.
It's only there to hold the top up.
Hexa is only a sales gimmick in my opinion.

 

[HumBurner]

Got to ask your self what makes a chain cut?
It's only the top of cutter that cuts wood.
Don't matter what's under the top one mm or so.
It's only there to hold the top up.
Hexa is only a sales gimmick in my opinion.

Where do you get your info that only the top of the cutter cuts wood?

 

[Squish9]

Where do you get your info that only the top of the cutter cuts wood?

Grab a permanent marker and paint a couple of teeth then make a few cuts and inspect the chain. The harder the wood the less of the cutter that actually cuts.

Now this changes depending on the style of cutter. Full chisel - only a very small part of the side plate will cut.

Semi chisel will use more over the side plate as it curves out further down the side plate and requires multiple passes to completely clear the kerf. Chipper uses most of the side plate with its big radius.

Safe assumption with FC - it will use the depth gauge height + 50% as the depth gauge penetrates the wood. In softwood it may dig deeper, hardwood less. A 30 thou raker will use 45 thou of the cutter.


Even shorter way of explaining it, about the thickness of the top plate is all that cuts.

 

[HumBurner]

By widening the "meat" under the top plate and where the top- and side-plates meet, you can increase dramatically the width of the chip/curl.

So yes, in fact the side-plate does quite a bit of cutting. The top-plate/working corner digs into the wood based on the depth gauge, while the side-plate begins its job.



Edit: I do agree with you, though, that hexa is most likely a gimmick. As has been said many times here before, it's main design-factor is for folks not great at sharpening to sharpen better/easier. Having personally not tried Hexa chain, and probably won't, I can't speak to this from a place of experience.

 

[el33t]

So, you do understand the difference between this post and your former post:

Those posts were written by two different users. I guess...

 

[el33t]

Grab a permanent marker and paint a couple of teeth then make a few cuts and inspect the chain. The harder the wood the less of the cutter that actually cuts.

Now this changes depending on the style of cutter. Full chisel - only a very small part of the side plate will cut.

Semi chisel will use more over the side plate as it curves out further down the side plate and requires multiple passes to completely clear the kerf. Chipper uses most of the side plate with its big radius.

Safe assumption with FC - it will use the depth gauge height + 50% as the depth gauge penetrates the wood. In softwood it may dig deeper, hardwood less. A 30 thou raker will use 45 thou of the cutter.


Even shorter way of explaining it, about the thickness of the top plate is all that cuts.

For those interested, here is a graph of the average chip thickness [mm] for different lengths of cut (H) depending on the feed force [newtons].



As you can see, for larger lengths of cut, despite a significant increase in feed force, the chip thickness does not actually increase.
The chain used is Oregon Super Chisel, the depth gauges setting is 0.5 mm and the wood is pine.

 

[Squish9]

So, you do understand the difference between this post and your former post:



Yes? Because the above post is completely false. And your second post begins to hit the nail on the head.

By widening the "meat" under the top plate and where the top- and side-plates meet, you can increase dramatically the width of the chip/curl.

So yes, in fact the side-plate does quite a bit of cutting. The top-plate/working corner digs into the wood based on the depth gauge, while the side-plate begins its job.



Edit: I do agree with you, though, that hexa is most likely a gimmick. As has been said many times here before, it's main design-factor is for folks not great at sharpening to sharpen better/easier. Having personally not tried Hexa chain, and probably won't, I can't speak to this from a place of experience.

Not sure I'm following you here. One of those posts is mine, the other is not.

When you say widening the meat under the top plate, I'm assuming you are saying increasing the top plate cutting angle. If so, yes it increases cutting speed to a point. Around 50 degrees is the cut off point where they become to fragile to survive more then a few cuts. This is the most critical angle for chain to cut, it can be 0 degrees top plate / sharpening angle (IE ripping chain), it can have a vertical side plate (90 degree square, even 100 degree for ripping) and still cut as long as there is a good top plate cutting angle. Staying in the 50-60 degree range is ideal for most applications, 70 if it's very hard going.

Carrying that angle over to the side plate is where we run into problems. Continuing over and meeting in the corner (square) is a really efficient shape for chain. Carrying it all the way over into the side plate (round, Hexa, C83/85 etc) is a little more problematic. You take support away from the corner and increasing side plate angle in itself will normal slow chain once you cross below 75-80 degrees.

In a perfect world it would all be square but it's to hard for most people to use so we get different things. Hexa is a solution to controlling file height, it where the majority of people go wrong when sharpening

 

[HumBurner]

Not sure I'm following you here. One of those posts is mine, the other is not.

When you say widening the meat under the top plate, I'm assuming you are saying increasing the top plate cutting angle. If so, yes it increases cutting speed to a point. Around 50 degrees is the cut off point where they become to fragile to survive more then a few cuts. This is the most critical angle for chain to cut, it can be 0 degrees top plate / sharpening angle (IE ripping chain), it can have a vertical side plate (90 degree square, even 100 degree for ripping) and still cut as long as there is a good top plate cutting angle. Staying in the 50-60 degree range is ideal for most applications, 70 if it's very hard going.

Carrying that angle over to the side plate is where we run into problems. Continuing over and meeting in the corner (square) is a really efficient shape for chain. Carrying it all the way over into the side plate (round, Hexa, C83/85 etc) is a little more problematic. You take support away from the corner and increasing side plate angle in itself will normal slow chain once you cross below 75-80 degrees.

In a perfect world it would all be square but it's to hard for most people to use so we get different things. Hexa is a solution to controlling file height, it where the majority of people go wrong when sharpening

My bad, sir! I misread the user handle

Post edited.


Squish, you know what you're talking about. Specie, not so much.


I'll try to take some photos and/or make some paint-drawings when I get back home in a couple/few days to show what I was trying to explain.

 

[davidwyby]

I think the edge is ever so slightly better supported with hexa. If you grind or file the same shape (side of the grind wheel) but tilt it up blunter/thicker, its gets quite durable for bashing thru dry Euc.