Seeking welder for 6000w generator

[SpaceBus]

I'm looking for a welder that can be powered by my B&S 6250 generator. The generator is a 110/220v generator with a 8500 watt peak and 6250 watt continuous output. The quick question is what's the max amperage of a welder could I power with the generator I have? I am specifically shopping for an inexpensive (think Harbor Freight) welder to practice and learn with.

Thanks.

 

[Steve]

Take a course at the local community college. Not only will you learn proper technique and machine settings, but also what type and construction of welder will fit best for your application. There is a lot more to welding than grabbing pieces of steel and sticking it together.

 

[SpaceBus]

Take a course at the local community college. Not only will you learn proper technique and machine settings, but also what type and construction of welder will fit best for your application. There is a lot more to welding than grabbing pieces of steel and sticking it together.

I learned how to weld while I was going to the community college I went to for automotive repair in NC. Tanks for the input. The issue is finding the appropriate welder for my generator, which wasn't covered. Some welders specify what the generator needs to be capable of. Briggs doesn't specify the THD for the generator making it hard to match a welder. Do you have any suggestions on how to clean up the output of the generator to work with an inverter welder? Elsewise I'm thinking a portable transformer welder would be the right option. Perhaps even a separate welder generator, but it and the transformer welder are expensive for a tool I might use once or twice a year.

 

[Steve]

Why does it need to be used with a generator?

I don't know of any budget welders to work with your application. Welders are expensive for the hobbyist. Just the way it is. But when you need it you need it. You may just need to raise your budget to fit your needs.

 

[Sagebrush33]

Miller trail blazer or bobcat. Has it's own power source. I forget which one is smaller of the two.
Your brigs won't be up to keeping up with a decent welder.

 

[farminkarman]

I learned how to weld while I was going to the community college I went to for automotive repair in NC. Tanks for the input. The issue is finding the appropriate welder for my generator, which wasn't covered. Some welders specify what the generator needs to be capable of. Briggs doesn't specify the THD for the generator making it hard to match a welder. Do you have any suggestions on how to clean up the output of the generator to work with an inverter welder? Elsewise I'm thinking a portable transformer welder would be the right option. Perhaps even a separate welder generator, but it and the transformer welder are expensive for a tool I might use once or twice a year.

Most inverter based welders can't handle more than 5% THD. As for "cleaning up" the output of the generator, that isn't really possible. You would just need to get a better generator. If you want to weld with the generator you have, then I would be looking at a transformer based machine as you said.

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

To answer the original question. 6250 watts / 240 volts = 26 amps

With an ARC welder in that amperage range, you can probably weld about 5/16 - 3/8 in a single pass. Probably looking at about 150-180 amp stick welder.

I bought a cheap Irontron 200 (200 amps AC) from Northern Tools on sale for about < $200, not exactly easy to use to get an arc going. I would pick a quality transformer welder and just not turn it up all the way or stick the rod when drawing close to 30 amps. I bet if you download the user manual for a quality welder, it will tell you how much amps it draws at what setting and rod.

Lincoln Electric AC-225 AC Arc Welder — Transformer, 230 Volt, 40–225 Amp Output, Model# K1170

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200434276_200434276

 

[Ford3000]

Do a search for 150 to 180 amp stick welders, the
power they require will be on the specification plate of the welder.

You would be better with an old fashioned type transformer based
welder with no other electronics other than the cooling fan, reason being
your generator may not have clean enough power output to run
the more complicated electronics found on the better sets.
Some welders will state suitable for generator on their spec sheets,
I would take this with a pinch of salt too, unless you spend a significant
amount of money on a trusted brand.
If your generator is not AVR controlled then it will have a hard time keeping a stable voltage to the welder, in general a generator capable of running a welder is an expensive item, when the load on the welder is cut, ie, when you stop welding the current will reverse through the welder winding, and try the same with the generator, there is built in safeguards on generators built for welding to protect their windings against this spike of current, am told the real danger is when this current tires to jump from the main windings across the gap and onto the field windings, an old guy told me this and advised me to just buy a welder built for the job, they weld better too.

For once or twice a year, I would hire a small stick welder, if it doesn't pay
to hire the welder, then the job is not worth doing.

 

[Al Smith]

Another debatable subject .Everybody seems to think they need "brand new "for some reason .However something like an old Lincoln "tombstone" buzz box would most likely work burning 3/32" general purpose rods like 6011-6013 .
FWIW two 12 volt batteries in series can work for a short period of time in a pinch .You just won't get real fast work out of batteries or the tombstone using small rods .So it just takes longer ,big deal .

 

[Larry B]

Personal experience with a 6500 watt/8500 watt surge generator.
Lincoln MP210 on 220V or 110V didn't work on stick or mig. Strike arc and welder would power off and reset at all but lowest amperage settings.
Two different transformer buzz box welders. Voltage sag when striking arc caused rod to stick so much just unuseable.
Cheap mig welder with flux core kinda worked on sheet metal but not on 1/8"or thicker.
YMMV

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

Another debatable subject .Everybody seems to think they need "brand new "for some reason .However something like an old Lincoln "tombstone" buzz box would most likely work burning 3/32" general purpose rods like 6011-6013 .
FWIW two 12 volt batteries in series can work for a short period of time in a pinch .You just won't get real fast work out of batteries or the tombstone using small rods .So it just takes longer ,big deal .

The reason I mentioned new was I used to see the Tombstones going for $50ish at auctions maybe 3-4 years ago, I skipped them because I had not yet installed 240v into my garage. Now on CL people are looking for $250-$300 for them.

Lincoln AC welder (buzz box) - $300 (burke county)

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/tls/d/waynesboro-lincoln-ac-welder-buzz-box/7362973749.html

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/for/d/norcross-lincoln-electric-arc-welder/7361341255.html

Better off buy a brand new one at Northern Tools for $50 more then paying $300 for a beat one. Why I bought the Irontron one for $200.

 

[Al Smith]

I suppose what you might find used depends on where you are at .The reason I mentioned the "tombstone" is because Lincoln must have made millions of them .IMO the older ones which are copper wound are much better than the aluminum winding later versions .Those early one had heavy enough windings they didn't need a cooling fan and they were heavy as lead .Saying that Lincoln is only one manufacture of many for those old buzz boxes .
Old welders are a subject I could write a book on .I have a Lincoln movable core circa 1940 ,a Marquette 250 plug in leads that must have came over on the Mayflower and a 400 amp Westinghouse open delta DC rectifier I rewired for single phase by using a double Pi filter to get rid of the AC ripple .Those plus a Lincoln SA 200 and a Hobart 250 Main line special engine driven machines .
I think old welders are about like old chainsaws .They just pop up when you least expect it .

 

[Sagebrush33]

I have an old miller CP200. Did some research on it before I picked it up. They're supposed to be easy to convert to single phase. I only have 110 running out to my garage now and I've been waiting for a couple months for my buddy to come out here to help me with upgrading the service to the house. I've got a 150A main panel with two 100A sub panels branched off for powering a couple different sections of the house. One sub powers the kitchen, mud room, and garage. I was looking into doing a "320A" service. Basically a 400A with 2 legs for two 2ooA panels. 1 for the future shop build and existing garage. He's been telling me I won't want the power bill associated with it. Said I should upgrade the house to 200 and run a 3phase gen set for the shop. Still waitin on him to get out here..... I'd have someone else come out but this fella owes me.
I'm wondering if a big 3 phase generator would play nice with the mig.

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

> and run a 3phase gen set for the shop.

I shop commercial auctions on a regular basis, I do not think I have seen a running used one, natural gas or diesel, sell for under $10,000. I do not know what the minimum monthly fee is for 480v, but, it can't be that high that it would justify a generator. I looked into 240v converters, so, I could power and test commercial kitchen equipment and forklift battery chargers that needed 208v or 480v and determined the kludge just was not worth it. Just better off having the 480v installed correctly once and be done with it. Plus, I determined I would need a real licensed commercial electrician to do all panels and drops so I would not kill myself or someone else $0.02

I do think having (2) 200 amp panels is the way to go. Most HVAC units take 30 amps, as do electric water heaters, add in one 50 amp welder and you can easily pop a 100 amp. Then for a garage you would have a 240v air compressor, which if you used at the same time as your 240v plasma cutter, could easily exceed 70 amps. I was reading manuals and reviews of various welders and the minimum of some are 50 amps with a suggested 70 amps by users. I know my Jacuzzi I removed was on a 70 amp circuit breaker, now a 50 amp for my welder. I do not think you can ever regret going big and for me, if I was buying a property with a real garage and it had good 240v service (never mind 480v) that would be a HUGE bonus.

They are going to force electric cars ad trucks on us, if we want them or not, so, having 480v 3 phase for fast charging already installed would not be a bad thing, imho.

 

[Sagebrush33]

> and run a 3phase gen set for the shop.

I shop commercial auctions on a regular basis, I do not think I have seen a running used one, natural gas or diesel, sell for under $10,000. I do not know what the minimum monthly fee is for 480v, but, it can't be that high that it would justify a generator. I looked into 240v converters, so, I could power and test commercial kitchen equipment and forklift battery chargers that needed 208v or 480v and determined the kludge just was not worth it. Just better off having the 480v installed correctly once and be done with it. Plus, I determined I would need a real licensed commercial electrician to do all panels and drops so I would not kill myself or someone else $0.02

I do think having (2) 200 amp panels is the way to go. Most HVAC units take 30 amps, as do electric water heaters, add in one 50 amp welder and you can easily pop a 100 amp. Then for a garage you would have a 240v air compressor, which if you used at the same time as your 240v plasma cutter, could easily exceed 70 amps. I was reading manuals and reviews of various welders and the minimum of some are 50 amps with a suggested 70 amps by users. I know my Jacuzzi I removed was on a 70 amp circuit breaker, now a 50 amp for my welder. I do not think you can ever regret going big and for me, if I was buying a property with a real garage and it had good 240v service (never mind 480v) that would be a HUGE bonus.

They are going to force electric cars ad trucks on us, if we want them or not, so, having 480v 3 phase for fast charging already installed would not be a bad thing, imho.

3 phase is not available in my rural location. I did see a NG powered 75kw 3 phase genset with a 225A breaker, selling for $6900.
Has a little over a thousand hours. Easily converted to wood gas pyrolosis if I pursued that direction.

I don't have plans to run the shop for a living, but to use it for maintenance on my equipment and projects. I could power my compressor (also 3 phase), and mig when I need to with the genset. Run in a line from the house, off an upgraded 200A service, for lighting and a bank of 110v outlets. Could also use the genset to feed the house during power outages.

These are my thoughts and only that. I am choosing my course of actions one stepping stone at a time. Much to do. Finances only allow so much at a time, but I do see the benefits of a "whole house" genset.

 

[JB-PlantHeirloom]

If you want to spend your time watching auctions in your area, Vision, usually has them in the FL, GA, NC, SC areas. Basically supermarkets have the nicest generators.

https://www.proxibid.com/Vision-Equ...p-Shop-Surplus-Equipment/event-catalog/206098

No generators in this auction, but, the switch might be of interest to you:

CUMMINS POWER COMMAND TRANSFER SWITCH OTPCA-5937322

https://www.proxibid.com/CUMMINS-POWER-COMMAND-TRANSFER-SWITCH-OTPCA-5937322/lotInformation/63318006

general info link:
Cummins OTEC Automatic Generator Transfer Switch — 400 Amps, 240 Volts, NEMA 1, Model# 400OTEC240

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200777587_200777587

I snagged a pressure pump (20 gallons) for a well only 2 years, looks like inside use, for $35, literally 1/20th of it's normal selling price. Probably use it on a rain barrel. The 6 gauge STOW cable (90+ feet on a reel) I used to install my ARC welder circuit I picked up for less then $50.00. So, lots of things a rural guy can pick up in these industrial supermarket if it is worth your time. I can usually snag Crown pallet jacks for $30-$50, though the nice electric ones usually hit $200. I have bought dozens of 42-55 plastic Rubbermaid brute barrels, with casters, for $3-$12 each. Those are very handy for inside storage of firewood and such.

I finished off my sawmill trailer with pallet racking I bought years ago and just got a bunch of scrap steel for $50ish that I am using for my fire wood processor build and trailer frame. I try not to pay retail :-D

 

[Al Smith]

As a suggestion it's not that hard to build a rotary phase converter .It's not the rocket science some make it seem . It's nothing more than a three phase motor wired using a capacitor across one set of windings to act as a start winding and far less expensive as installing a three phase service .You can Google it if you want .If done correctly it is true three phase with about a 92 percent power factor .In some applications these are used on high tech CNC machinery .BTW 400 amps is a very large service unless you have a very large machine shop or a mega farm .My shop is 6o by 70 with a 200 amp single phase service with a home built rotary built using a 5 HP motor .I seldom use much more than 50-60 amps of it and even that much is very seldom .---just saying ----

 

[Sagebrush33]

If you want to spend your time watching auctions in your area, Vision, usually has them in the FL, GA, NC, SC areas. Basically supermarkets have the nicest generators.

https://www.proxibid.com/Vision-Equ...p-Shop-Surplus-Equipment/event-catalog/206098

No generators in this auction, but, the switch might be of interest to you:

CUMMINS POWER COMMAND TRANSFER SWITCH OTPCA-5937322

https://www.proxibid.com/CUMMINS-POWER-COMMAND-TRANSFER-SWITCH-OTPCA-5937322/lotInformation/63318006

general info link:
Cummins OTEC Automatic Generator Transfer Switch — 400 Amps, 240 Volts, NEMA 1, Model# 400OTEC240

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200777587_200777587

I snagged a pressure pump (20 gallons) for a well only 2 years, looks like inside use, for $35, literally 1/20th of it's normal selling price. Probably use it on a rain barrel. The 6 gauge STOW cable (90+ feet on a reel) I used to install my ARC welder circuit I picked up for less then $50.00. So, lots of things a rural guy can pick up in these industrial supermarket if it is worth your time. I can usually snag Crown pallet jacks for $30-$50, though the nice electric ones usually hit $200. I have bought dozens of 42-55 plastic Rubbermaid brute barrels, with casters, for $3-$12 each. Those are very handy for inside storage of firewood and such.

I finished off my sawmill trailer with pallet racking I bought years ago and just got a bunch of scrap steel for $50ish that I am using for my fire wood processor build and trailer frame. I try not to pay retail :-D

Thank you for your links and all of your advice.

 

[Sagebrush33]

As a suggestion it's not that hard to build a rotary phase converter .It's not the rocket science some make it seem . It's nothing more than a three phase motor wired using a capacitor across one set of windings to act as a start winding and far less expensive as installing a three phase service .You can Google it if you want .If done correctly it is true three phase with about a 92 percent power factor .In some applications these are used on high tech CNC machinery .BTW 400 amps is a very large service unless you have a very large machine shop or a mega farm .My shop is 6o by 70 with a 200 amp single phase service with a home built rotary built using a 5 HP motor .I seldom use much more than 50-60 amps of it and even that much is very seldom .---just saying ----

I've been told a mig would not like a RPC. Something about the sign waves not being clean. I grabbed the compressor a few years ago for a great deal. $800 for a 2 stage pump with very low hours. I was originally planning to run the phase converter with this. Flash forward to last fall, I stumbled onto the old school miller. 200amp welder at 100% duty cycle for $700 sold me. That included the 10amp wire feeder, all leads, torch, hose and regulator. Just gotta grab a tank once I'm ready to run her.

I am on an old farmstead with a 19 room farmhouse @4500sq/ft. I'll loose 2 rooms when remodeling a couple into bigger rooms.
My shop plans are for 40'x50'. Nothing "huge" but adequate. I do not have 3 phase available on this road. I know I need 200a service for the house. So I guess my question is, do I get the 200a service and pay the power company's monthly bills or do the 3 phase genset? Like I was saying, I can rewire the mig for single phase ..... and use the RPC for the compressor. Then again, the genset also has it's benefits.

It's a lot for me to ponder over. I won't make a decision without collecting more advice and research.

 

[Al Smith]

Micro wire ,MIG has it's goods and bads .You need clean metal not old greasey rusty farm machinery and you have a hard time in the wind because you lose gas coverage .The good side is you can do sheet metal .
I used some of the first ones ever on the market in 1966 . A DC stick welder probably is more desirable than a buzz box but with the rods made today a buzz will work just about as well . FWIW Forney for one makes a 7018 that will work on AC as well as DC .
Usually I've found on an old buzz box any failures are usually because something came loose and whoever owned it either didn't know how to repair or they just didn't use it any more .That antique Marquette my dad had which I have at the house now I found every thing I needed to do repairs from e-bay .Dad was a wizard mechanic but not so good of an electrician .That thing would light you up before I fixed it .Good old machine though now .I was born in 1948 and it predates me .It too is copper wound and heavy as lead with no cooling fan .