Light switch wiring question

[srcarr52]

Simple hot/neutral theory here!

The ones that tickle are hot?

 

[USMC615]

Simple for us that know it Jason!!!


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It can be tricky to deal with at times Dan...I’ve seen some real messes with older homes that were wired many decades ago.

 

[paragonbuilder]

It can be tricky to deal with at times Dan...I’ve seen some real messes with older homes that were wired many decades ago.

Yup. If anyone likes a challenge. Figure this out.

Feed a 3way sw with 120v at bottom of stairway, run 3 wires to 3way at top of stairs. Now from this box run 2 wires to light, and 2 wires to receptacles on second floor. Light switches on and off with the 3ways properly, and receptacles are hot all the time.
How are the connections made?

And no it’s not legal... but it was at one time...
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[RI Chevy]

Long and short of it in the OPs question is in the older days, electricians used to feed or send power directly to the light, then send power from the light back down to the switch on a 2 wire.
Nowadays, it is much better to feed or send power to the switch and a switchleg up to the light. Much easier and safer. It is also much neater in the boxes with less wires.
As far as I knew, the electrical codes are national standard, not individual by states.

 

[T.Roller]

Long and short of it in the OPs question is in the older days, electricians used to feed or send power directly to the light, then send power from the light back down to the switch on a 2 wire.
Nowadays, it is much better to feed or send power to the switch and a switchleg up to the light. Much easier and safer. It is also much neater in the boxes with less wires.
As far as I knew, the electrical codes are national standard, not individual by states.

You are correct. NEC code book is nation wide but inspector trumps the book everytime.

 

[RI Chevy]

Absolutely Dave.
AND, each inspector has their own personal favorite things they like to see BEFORE they sign off on the inspection too. Even in the small state of RI. You can wire to code, then they ask you to change it to suit their preferred way. LOL
Go figure.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Long and short of it in the OPs question is in the older days, electricians used to feed or send power directly to the light, then send power from the light back down to the switch on a 2 wire.
Nowadays, it is much better to feed or send power to the switch and a switchleg up to the light. Much easier and safer. It is also much neater in the boxes with less wires.
As far as I knew, the electrical codes are national standard, not individual by states.

Still 100% legal to wire this way, and is done all the time. Nothing unsafe about it at all. Only thing is you need a neutral in a light sw box now, or it needs to be able to be easily added. So for a sw loop we typically run a 3 wire now.



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[paragonbuilder]

You are correct. NEC code book is nation wide but inspector trumps the book everytime.

Yes, all depends which code cycle has been adopted. We stayed on 2005 for about 10 years til we adopted 2014. Then there are the state addendums...


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[paragonbuilder]

Absolutely Dave.
AND, each inspector has their own personal favorite things they like to see BEFORE they sign off on the inspection too. Even in the small state of RI. You can wire to code, then they ask you to change it to suit their preferred way. LOL
Go figure.

Actually they can’t. But they try to. I challenge them.
If they want to enforce something not in the adopted code, it needs to be a written town policy. How can they make a contractor change work done to code and lose money, when they were not informed of a policy. If they don’t like it we go to the state inspector.
I’m not a dick about it, cuz I need to work with these inspectors over and over, but don’t step on me...


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[RI Chevy]

Very true. Every light needs a true neutral. I think its easier to wire it the way I described.
Most every electrician I know feeds switches and switch-legs up to light.
When feeds were sent directly to lights, they bugged off the box for every outlet. Kind of the old way of doing things.
But your right. Nothing illegal doing it either way.
Have you experienced different inspectors having their own "preferred" ways of doing things? They tell you right away, the way you wired this is true to code, but I prefer it done this way? Seems like every city or town inspector have their own preferences. Lol
Gotta keep notes on what they prefer. WTF

You guys type faster than I. Lol. I am always a post or 2 behind.

We just cave in and give them what they want. Boss doesn't want any issues.

 

[paragonbuilder]

Very true. Every light needs a true neutral. I think its easier to wire it the way I described.
Most every electrician I know feeds switches and switch-legs up to light.
When feeds were sent directly to lights, they bugged off the box for every outlet. Kind of the old way of doing things.
But your right. Nothing illegal doing it either way.
Have you experienced different inspectors having their own "preferred" ways of doing things? They tell you right away, the way you wired this is true to code, but I prefer it done this way? Seems like every city or town inspector have their own preferences. Lol
Gotta keep notes on what they prefer. WTF

You guys type faster than I. Lol. I am always a post or 2 behind.

We just cave in and give them what they want. Boss doesn't want any issues.

Switches now need a neutral Jeff, the light would not work without them.
I typically wire with sw. legs, but some times it’s more appropriate to wire with a sw loop.
As far as preference, most are not really electrical inspectors but building officials, that inspect everything. If you don’t challenge the next guy suffers too...


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[T.Roller]

Actually they can’t. But they try to. I challenge them.
If they want to enforce something not in the adopted code, it needs to be a written town policy. How can they make a contractor change work done to code and lose money, when they were not informed of a policy. If they don’t like it we go to the state inspector.
I’m not a dick about it, cuz I need to work with these inspectors over and over, but don’t step on me...


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Actually they can. Look it up. They have the final say and can trump anything in the code book.

 

[T.Roller]

It's actually written in the code book. When I get to the car this evening I'll let you know exactly where.

 

[paragonbuilder]

As far as issues...
They have no right to walk all over you.


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[T.Roller]

Luckily I don't have to worry about inspectors. I do all industrial

 

[paragonbuilder]

Actually they can. Look it up. They have the final say and can trump anything in the code book.

Yes but they need to make clear upon permit application any thing different from the code that they will require. That is why there is a plan review.



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[RI Chevy]

We try to get every inspector to do a walk through at onset and go over everything with them. Ask them if they require anything special beyond the normal code requirements. Then there is no surprises at the end.
I hear you about challenging them Dan. Sometimes you can win the battle but lose the war in the end. They play games, hold up final clearances and cause problems. Much easier to just play the game and let the inspectors feel that they are the boss.

 

[paragonbuilder]

We try to get every inspector to do a walk through at onset and go over everything with them. Ask them if they require anything special beyond the normal code requirements. Then there is no surprises at the end.
I hear you about challenging them Dan. Sometimes you can win the battle but lose the war in the end. They play games, hold up final clearances and cause problems. Much easier to just play the game and let the inspectors feel that they are the boss.

It depends Jeff. I’m not talking petty things. I mean something that is going to cost a lot of time or money to change. And like I said. I work with them. It’s very rare I’ve had issues. Usually I state my disagreements and back it up with code references, and they are good. We walk away friends. If I am going to contest to the state official, I let the inspector know that right then. Most often they then back down. Like I said, I treat them with respect, but hold my ground. And they can get in trouble for these games they try to play also.


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[paragonbuilder]

Actually they can. Look it up. They have the final say and can trump anything in the code book.

It's actually written in the code book. When I get to the car this evening I'll let you know exactly where.

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[RI Chevy]

All true Dan.