Fireplace ducted throughout entire house

[S&S_Work_Saws]

Hoping you guys can give me some advice on my fireplace. My home is roughly 2,500sq.ft. Ranch style house, all on one level. I noticed when we bought the place that it had a set of vent in the ceiling of every room and standard floor vents also. What I figured out is the ceiling vents are a complete stand alone set of vents coming from the fireplace. The Bosch central Heat/AC are all ducted through the floor vents. The fireplace even has its own blower motor and cold air return. The fireplace will actually heat the entire house on 0° nights. It's a constant battle keeping it fed though. Upon further inspection I have found that it has no damper system at all. Chimney is wide open and the face is just a set of glass bifold doors. So my questions are this....

-was it a common thing for a fireplace to be ducted throughout an entire house in the 1980's, when this house was built?? I don't think I've ever seen a setup like this before. Finding some manufacturer info for a brand some how would be great for information.

-is there any way to install a damper of some kind and would it help regulate the burn speed enough to make a difference? I would think with an open front fireplace a feed damper on a set of well sealed doors would have to be used instead of a chimney blocking style. I could be wrong but it would seem a chimney block type of damper may just fill the house with smoke.

 

[Dustin4185]

My parents house had an Heat-o-later insert that had a blower on it that used the fireplace as a plenum and blew air out into the house. Whoever built the house also added pockets in the masonry chimney that had fans up high and would circulate the hot air back down to the floor level and out of vents, but it want through the entire house. That took some planning. Does it work off of thermal mass of the brick/chimney getting hot?

 

[Bluzharp]

When I bought my house it had the glass bi fold doors on the fireplace. It went through a lot of wood for very little heat. I installed a modern insert and it has been the best thing I've done to this house. I have a vaulted ceiling in the living room and have thought it would be nice to have a separate duct system to spread the heat out to the rest of the house. I run the HVAC fan all the time and have a small fan blowing warm air down the hallway to the cold air return and it works adequately.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

My parents house had an Heat-o-later insert that had a blower on it that used the fireplace as a plenum and blew air out into the house. Whoever built the house also added pockets in the masonry chimney that had fans up high and would circulate the hot air back down to the floor level and out of vents, but it want through the entire house. That took some planning. Does it work off of thermal mass of the brick/chimney getting hot?

No, this setup actually has a metal heater box around the fireplace and it's own dedicated squirrel cage blower motor. The blower motor is controlled by a honey well thermostat in the heater box like a lot of older wood furnaces.
I've never seen anything quite like this on a fireplace. I'll post some pictures later today.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

When I bought my house it had the glass bi fold doors on the fireplace. It went through a lot of wood for very little heat. I installed a modern insert and it has been the best thing I've done to this house. I have a vaulted ceiling in the living room and have thought it would be nice to have a separate duct system to spread the heat out to the rest of the house. I run the HVAC fan all the time and have a small fan blowing warm air down the hallway to the cold air return and it works adequately.

The seperater ducts in the ceiling have been a blessing and a curse. They work great with a fire going but I can't help but wonder how much heat we're losing when their isn't a fire.

 

[Bill G]

You have a very good set-up that can be tweaked to be even better but as with everything a pic is worth a thousand words

 

[Woodwackr]

Hoping you guys can give me some advice on my fireplace. My home is roughly 2,500sq.ft. Ranch style house, all on one level. I noticed when we bought the place that it had a set of vent in the ceiling of every room and standard floor vents also. What I figured out is the ceiling vents are a complete stand alone set of vents coming from the fireplace. The Bosch central Heat/AC are all ducted through the floor vents. The fireplace even has its own blower motor and cold air return. The fireplace will actually heat the entire house on 0° nights. It's a constant battle keeping it fed though. Upon further inspection I have found that it has no damper system at all. Chimney is wide open and the face is just a set of glass bifold doors. So my questions are this....

-was it a common thing for a fireplace to be ducted throughout an entire house in the 1980's, when this house was built?? I don't think I've ever seen a setup like this before. Finding some manufacturer info for a brand some how would be great for information.

-is there any way to install a damper of some kind and would it help regulate the burn speed enough to make a difference? I would think with an open front fireplace a feed damper on a set of well sealed doors would have to be used instead of a chimney blocking style. I could be wrong but it would seem a chimney block type of damper may just fill the house with smoke.

Sounds a lot like what we have, minus the extra ducting. We have a Delta wood stove/fireplace that has an auto-damper, blower under the fire box and 2 8” cutouts on the top of the firebox for external ducting. The unit is designed to heat 3500sqft; we have 2400. Rather than run ceiling ducts to the bedrooms we hooked up the 2 externals to what the called gravity vents, well above the fireplace, 18’ ceiling…
With a ceiling fan on reverse and the central furnace set on recirculate it heats the whole place quite well. But, when temps get down near 0 I do have to get up and add wood we tend to spend a lot of time in the toasty living room

 

[jcarlberg]

When I bought my house it had the glass bi fold doors on the fireplace. It went through a lot of wood for very little heat. I installed a modern insert and it has been the best thing I've done to this house. I have a vaulted ceiling in the living room and have thought it would be nice to have a separate duct system to spread the heat out to the rest of the house. I run the HVAC fan all the time and have a small fan blowing warm air down the hallway to the cold air return and it works adequately.

Have been thinking of replacing our insert to get more heat - but it will take several years to make my money back.

 

[Wilhelm]

...was it a common thing for a fireplace to be ducted throughout an entire house in the 1980's,...

What do You think how this guy would have spent Christmas without ducts?!

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

You have a very good set-up that can be tweaked to be even better but as with everything a pic is worth a thousand words

The face of mine just looks like a normal brick fireplace. No air ducts or damper controls of any kind. Behind the fireplace is a bathroom though. Inside the bathroom closet is the heater box, thermostat, and everything else. Still no damper controls of any kind though.


It pulls cold air from a cold air return at the floor level in the hallway. Shoots it up through the heater box and then is ducted to every room via an insulated round 6" duct into round 8" vents in the ceilings.

 

[Hoser]

I’ve done hunderds of wood to gas retrofits, and that is by far the slickest set up I’ve seen.
Maybe the most money up front but could you not just gut it out, drop a liner and stick a blaze king or similar insert in? I hear alot of good about the catalyst stoves

 

[Bluzharp]

When I installed the insert, I knew I would not actually get my money back. It was a matter of making something that didn't work into something thay works well. Add the cost of saws, the woodshed, fuel, etc. and the amount of electricity saved will not exceed the expense for many years. When the power goes out here, which is common, I can still have heat. I also like maintaining my little forest and messing around with saws and stuff. In colder areas with longer winters and higher energy costs, the financial break even point would be much closer than it is around here.

 

[Fleethirte]

not really the same setup but similar concept. My friend in Wisconsin’s house has return ducts in the ceiling and floor. Based upon using heat or AC you open or close which one you want the air to return thru.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

When I installed the insert, I knew I would not actually get my money back. It was a matter of making something that didn't work into something thay works well. Add the cost of saws, the woodshed, fuel, etc. and the amount of electricity saved will not exceed the expense for many years. When the power goes out here, which is common, I can still have heat. I also like maintaining my little forest and messing around with saws and stuff. In colder areas with longer winters and higher energy costs, the financial break even point would be much closer than it is around here.

I'm not so much worried about the cost savings. I'm more worried about it it's already here, can I make it work better to actually be practical for regular use. The ducting tells me it was probably intended for regular use. As is you have to refill it every hour. And that's burning oak. Surely if a damper of some kind could be incorporated it would help with that.

 

[Bluzharp]

That is the exact problem that was solved by installing the insert. There is not a chimney damper but there is a very effective air inlet control. The glass doors leaked too much fugitive air into the firebox. The insert not only has a sealed firebox and precise air control, but it has a secondary (overfire) air system that drastically improves combustion and efficiency. I load it up at night and it is still providing heat in the morning. It is no comparison to the glass door, full chimney, old school fireplace. I couldn't keep up with how much wood that thing went through and the rest of the house was cold because of the massive amount of make up air going up the chimney.

I'm just trying to help by sharing my experience. I don't think the duct is as much of an issue as the fireplace itself is. I think the duct would work better if the fireplace worked better.

 

[cuinrearview]

A fireplace is still going to be a fireplace, regardless of how it's heat is handled. If you want longer burn times, the best bang will be from a modern insert. Just my .02

 

[Ronaldo]

A fireplace is still going to be a fireplace, regardless of how it's heat is handled. If you want longer burn times, the best bang will be from a modern insert. Just my .02

Totally true. I put an insert into a manufactured fireplace and what a difference. Heated the house with the insert instead of just the room with the fireplace.

 

[dangerousatom]

If your handy enough and have the tools ( welder, grinder ect ) you could make steel doors that actually seal along with a inside the fire box swing handle type damper or an exterior face pull rod damper that is well after the chimney narrows. The rod would be a handle on the outside of the brick above the mantle.

Doing only one or the other will improve things but not properly solve the problem. Obviously if the doors dont seal and you damper it only its liable to smoke out the front. If you seal the doors well and have no damper the heat still goes up the chimney or the fire goes out from too much draft and not enough fresh airflow. Its also something you dont want to start messing with till the weather is warm.

Just from that picture IMO the face and doors do not look like that fire place is a "long hot heat" friendly setup.
What Im asking is:
Is it sheet metal on the inside or 1/8" or thicker plate steel or fire brick/masonry cement on the inside. If its only sheet metal and some fire brick laid around the perimeter its IMO an aesthetic fire place and wont last when put to burning all night every night. If its all brick on the inside right up into the chimney its basically its a matter of installing a sealing door assembly and a custom damper setup. Without being there to give it a look over its hard to give advice. If you have a local-ish wood burning/fireplace store see if someone will come out "to give a free estimate" on making or replacing it to burn better, more efficiently with a damper. You may get a better idea of what you have and what can be done.

 

[S&S_Work_Saws]

If your handy enough and have the tools ( welder, grinder ect ) you could make steel doors that actually seal along with a inside the fire box swing handle type damper or an exterior face pull rod damper that is well after the chimney narrows. The rod would be a handle on the outside of the brick above the mantle.

Doing only one or the other will improve things but not properly solve the problem. Obviously if the doors dont seal and you damper it only its liable to smoke out the front. If you seal the doors well and have no damper the heat still goes up the chimney or the fire goes out from too much draft and not enough fresh airflow. Its also something you dont want to start messing with till the weather is warm.

Just from that picture IMO the face and doors do not look like that fire place is a "long hot heat" friendly setup.
What Im asking is:
Is it sheet metal on the inside or 1/8" or thicker plate steel or fire brick/masonry cement on the inside. If its only sheet metal and some fire brick laid around the perimeter its IMO an aesthetic fire place and wont last when put to burning all night every night. If its all brick on the inside right up into the chimney its basically its a matter of installing a sealing door assembly and a custom damper setup. Without being there to give it a look over its hard to give advice. If you have a local-ish wood burning/fireplace store see if someone will come out "to give a free estimate" on making or replacing it to burn better, more efficiently with a damper. You may get a better idea of what you have and what can be done.

The current setup is heavy gauge steel with a sheet metal and then Brick surround until about the ceiling. Once it gets to the attic it transitions into a 12" cement lined double wall chimney pipe.
Sounding like an insert in the only logical way to move forward and get efficient heat. Blows my mind still that someone put all of this work into the ducting and everything around a basic fireplace.
I've got a project at work that the homeowner is about to remove an insert and replace it with a gas burning setup. Maybe he'll sell me that one.

I've got to approach this situation with some finesse. Our last house burned down about 15 months ago. Insurance investigator with 30+ years experience concluded it was caused by our victor indoor wood furnace some how. That furnace had been operating in that house since the early 1990's. Hard for me to believe it all of a sudden caused a fire. None the less my family are still a little gun shy about wood heat understandably.
There's just nothing that heats quite like wood on a cold snowy night.

 

[Bill G]

The current setup is heavy gauge steel with a sheet metal and then Brick surround until about the ceiling. Once it gets to the attic it transitions into a 12" cement lined double wall chimney pipe.
Sounding like an insert in the only logical way to move forward and get efficient heat. Blows my mind still that someone put all of this work into the ducting and everything around a basic fireplace.
I've got a project at work that the homeowner is about to remove an insert and replace it with a gas burning setup. Maybe he'll sell me that one.

I've got to approach this situation with some finesse. Our last house burned down about 15 months ago. Insurance investigator with 30+ years experience concluded it was caused by our victor indoor wood furnace some how. That furnace had been operating in that house since the early 1990's. Hard for me to believe it all of a sudden caused a fire. None the less my family are still a little gun shy about wood heat understandably.
There's just nothing that heats quite like wood on a cold snowy night.

None of my business so feel free to tell me to pound salt but did they pay or slither off?