Building a hybrid 044/046, or wait for a 460?

[MemphisMechanic]

The itch for my next project is an 046/460/460 Sthil as a primary falling and bucking saw with occasional use in the tree.

Built a ported 044 two tears ago, before finding out about fitting 046 top ends onto them. Sold that to a buddy and miss the saw.

This time I want to build a 76-77 size saw. Are there any honest advantages to being patient and holding out for a good deal on a donor 046? Will I be gaining anything or giving anything up by building an 044/440 with the 046 jug instead?

(Yes, there are plenty of threads on here about these hybrids. They are focused on building the saw. The mechanicals. I run a tree service, and I want to hear about the operator’s side of things. What they feel like to run.)

 

[Stump Shot]

@Canadian farm boy is the go to hybrid man, he should be able to give you a good perspective.

 

[Canadian farm boy]

A well done 044 hybrid keeps all the good running characteristics of the 044 and has close to as much torque as a 046. Some say the hybrid has a little more vibrations. Personally I don’t notice it.
A hybrid typically has very good throttle response and likes to rev. 15k rpms wot and 11k rpms in the cut is what I usually see.
Like most ported saws they can be tailored to be a short or long bar saw.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

A well done 044 hybrid keeps all the good running characteristics of the 044 and has close to as much torque as a 046.

What casues the reduction in torque? They both have a 36mm stroke and 52mm bore, so what else does the 046 have going for it? Different carb, case volume, etc?

I’ve never even held an 046. Very familiar with the 044.

 

[Canadian farm boy]

What casues the reduction in torque? They both have a 36mm stroke and 52mm bore, so what else does the 046 have going for it? Different carb, case volume, etc?

I’ve never even held an 046. Very familiar with the 044.

046 is built for running a longer bar. Heavier, stronger cases, higher output oiler, larger oil and fuel tanks.
046 uses a poly flywheel, 044 aluminum (at least 4 different ones)
Carbs will interchange with the only real difference being the jetting.

I think the lighter crank and the smaller case volume of the 044 has a lot to do with the difference in torque. The porting recipe can help to overcome some of this

 

[MemphisMechanic]

Okay. THAT is the info I’ve really been looking for and it simply isn’t found anywhere on the web. Thanks!

A 460/461 is worth the extra scratch for me, just for the oiler and larger tanks.

 

[Evan03]

Ive got some time on the 044 with 32" not sure larger tanks are needed.
Ported 44 with 32" works well. Ive yet bump to 44/46 but soon will.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[tek9tim]

Oiler can be modded by swapping the piston, and tank size difference is negligible. You can't lighten up a 46 case to weigh the same as a 44 case.

Been running hybrids for 16 years, I don't grab the 460 very often.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

So. To conclude this thread…

I started it because I am selling my 044 to a friend and need to replace it. I wanted a hybrid, or an 046.

Oops. Somehow I wound up with a Husky.

Just picked this up off Marketplace for the whopping price of $250. Just needs bar nuts and an air filter and some decent dogs.

Kinda went the other way on this one.

 

[ManiacalMark]

Now you just need a boat to go with it hahaha!

 

[Woodslasher]

So. To conclude this thread…

I started it because I am selling my 044 to a friend and need to replace it. I wanted a hybrid, or an 046.

Oops. Somehow I wound up with a Husky.

Just picked this up off Marketplace for the whopping price of $250. Just needs bar nuts and an air filter and some decent dogs.

Kinda went the other way on this one.

And a brake flag plus a few screws. If you're looking for big dawgs I've got an oem outer I'd send you for the cost of shipping.

 

[whitesnake]

So. To conclude this thread…

I started it because I am selling my 044 to a friend and need to replace it. I wanted a hybrid, or an 046.

Oops. Somehow I wound up with a Husky.

Just picked this up off Marketplace for the whopping price of $250. Just needs bar nuts and an air filter and some decent dogs.

Kinda went the other way on this one.

Hey can never go wrong with a 372 either. The 440 of the husky world. Old faithful.

 

[MemphisMechanic]

And a brake flag plus a few screws. If you're looking for big dawgs I've got an oem outer I'd send you for the cost of shipping.

I appreciate it, but it’s getting West Coast’s 3 point dogs. Have them on a few other saws and they’re worth the dough.

And yes, along with a bashed muffler… every single cover or component is missing one screw, or has a mismatched fastener.

Brake lever and the missing air filter are top priority, the rest can wait for a couple weeks.

Hey can never go wrong with a 372 either. The 440 of the husky world. Old faithful.

This is my firet Husky pro saw, and I definitely see why this saw has fans. It’s even lighter than an 044 and has smoother antivibe (spring instead of 044’s rubber.) The stop switch is also in a position that doesn’t suck for a lefty nearly as much as my Stihl’s.

Looking forward to porting this thing.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Kinda the other side of the fence for hybrid nightmare decisions.
I think the oem 51.mm top end swap for the 372xp is just as desirable as the stihl hybrid, except your not gonna find one cheap.
I think the 372 is a fantastic saw and I enjoy cutting all day with any permutation of one.
Vibration doesn't really bother me for most saws ,as I also enjoy my vintage saws too.
Those 372s are super nice to tear down and work on also, user and mechanically friendly.

 

[Woodslasher]

Kinda the other side of the fence for hybrid nightmare decisions.
I think the oem 51.mm top end swap for the 372xp is just as desirable as the stihl hybrid, except your not gonna find one cheap.
I think the 372 is a fantastic saw and I enjoy cutting all day with any permutation of one.
Vibration doesn't really bother me for most saws ,as I also enjoy my vintage saws too.
Those 372s are super nice to tear down and work on also, user and mechanically friendly.

Yep, I had a 372XPW and a CFB hybrid for a while, now I have a 372XPW and a spare top end for the same. I still miss that hybrid, but I could tell the exact minute the chain was less than sharp on it and my hands would remember running it for a day or so afterwards. The 372? Even with hard blue springs I can run it for hours without my hands "vibing" later that day. For your second point, a 372 was the first saw that taught me that you could pull the top end by removing 9 screws, even counting the top cover ones.

 

[Maintenance Chief]

Yep, I had a 372XPW and a CFB hybrid for a while, now I have a 372XPW and a spare top end for the same. I still miss that hybrid, but I could tell the exact minute the chain was less than sharp on it and my hands would remember running it for a day or so afterwards. The 372? Even with hard blue springs I can run it for hours without my hands "vibing" later that day. For your second point, a 372 was the first saw that taught me that you could pull the top end by removing 9 screws, even counting the top cover ones.

What are these ( blue springs) I hear tale of?

 

[Woodslasher]

What are these ( blue springs) I hear tale of?

Think of a normal spring on the blue pill. They're stiffer and harder than a standard set of springs, and the way you can tell them apart is they have a blue center plug while the standard plugs are grey. I like them because with a set of 2071 dogs and the blue springs my 372 balances quite well with a 32" bar. A standard 372 with a 32" gets pretty floppy and will hit the a/v limiters with minor effort while a 372 with a 32" the blue springs won't. The blue ones came standard on XPW models, presumably to handle the bigger bars PNW guys would put on them. Tomorrow I'll get pics of my dad's standard 372 next to my W with both of them wearing 32's to illustrate my point. Stolen interwebs pic:

 

[maulhead]

Think of a normal spring on the blue pill. They're stiffer and harder than a standard set of springs, and the way you can tell them apart is they have a blue center plug while the standard plugs are grey. I like them because with a set of 2071 dogs and the blue springs my 372 balances quite well with a 32" bar. A standard 372 with a 32" gets pretty floppy and will hit the a/v limiters with minor effort while a 372 with a 32" the blue springs won't. The blue ones came standard on XPW models, presumably to handle the bigger bars PNW guys would put on them. Tomorrow I'll get pics of my dad's standard 372 next to my W with both of them wearing 32's to illustrate my point. Stolen interwebs pic:

Yes Stihl does the same thing on their 3/4 wrap handle saws vs 1/2 wrap saws.

Whether some are aware of it or not, the springs or rubber AV mounts are stiffer on 3/4 wrap stihl saws, to handle longer bars better.

Here is a pair of new OEM upper AV mounts for 461's stihl. Blue one is for 3/4 wrap saw, all black one is for 1/2 wrap saw. They are different part numbers in the IPL's. They may not look any different other then color, but in hand moving them around you can feel the difference in the stiffer vs softer rubber composition.

Throw a 32" bar on a 461, go cut some wood, then throw a 32" bar on a 461R, go cut some wood, one will feel like a floppy fish out of water, while the other will feel like it took a cialis pill. 461 1/2 wrap saw with a long bar the air filter cover will touch the cylinder cover without much effort, a 3/4 wrap saw you almost have to be a ape to make that happen.

 

[drf256]

A 446 and 460 are both great saws. If you don’t mind the extra 1-2 pounds, the 460 is the way to got. Better oiler and holds more fluids making refills less often.

A 460 should hold up longer too, there is a reason Stihl didn’t make a 52mm 044, unlike the 034/036, the 024/026 and the 064/066. They had a great design and improved upon it with a bigger stronger crank and a bigger stronger case.

 

[Orangeinthebarn]

Have had many 044 and went to 462 2 years ago and added a 461 a year ago. 461 is the way to go if running bigger than 20 inch bar. Its stihls best IMO