Any Cloned AT or MT saws out there

[Ford3000]

Just wondering if the Chinese or anyone else have adopted the AT or MT
technology into their efforts, I have not seen any saws other than from Husqvarna
and Stihl using such tech, I mean if they don’t care about being done for copyright
why not go the whole nine yards.

Would be something if the Chinese or someone else managed to build a clone
that was more reliable than the original 550 562, with none of the starting or heating issues.

 

[Czed]

I wouldn't think so they make a lot of bank off the am carbs
And all the oem one's stihl and other's has them make in china.
They usually clone nla saws from what I've seen.

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

I haven’t seen any AT/MT clones, and I’ve looked. Can’t even get a slanty fin cylinder for a Stihl, all clone cylinders are straight finned.
Give it a while, and the Chinese will work out what’s what, and sure enough they’ll clone it. Whether they’ll be on or below par is another question. Hit and miss most likely, as like most other parts.
China doesn’t conform to environmental laws, so they’ll keep churning out carb saws for a lot longer than say Europe or the USA has/will. Once the Stihl and Husky remove adjustable carbs from all/majority of their line ups, China will step up its game to sell AT/MT clone parts.
These are just my opinions.

On a side note, I’d prefer to see a cloned AT/MT solenoid and software to allow programming and diagnostic.


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[Ford3000]

I wouldn't think so they make a lot of bank off the am carbs
And all the oem one's stihl and other's has them make in china.
They usually clone nla saws from what I've seen.

Maybe Husky and Stihl are happy the clone makers are finding
the AT MT more difficult, thus the clone maker threat is stopped
before it cuts into their profits.

 

[Ford3000]

I haven’t seen any AT/MT clones, and I’ve looked. Can’t even get a slanty fin cylinder for a Stihl, all clone cylinders are straight finned.
Give it a while, and the Chinese will work out what’s what, and sure enough they’ll clone it. Whether they’ll be on or below par is another question. Hit and miss most likely, as like most other parts.
China doesn’t conform to environmental laws, so they’ll keep churning out carb saws for a lot longer than say Europe or the USA has/will. Once the Stihl and Husky remove adjustable carbs from all/majority of their line ups, China will step up its game to sell AT/MT clone parts.
These are just my opinions.

On a side note, I’d prefer to see a cloned AT/MT solenoid and software to allow programming and diagnostic.


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Well the Chinese have had at least 6 years to reverse engineer the AT MT
system, so to me it looks like they can’t do it.
Maybe the closed systems used were designed to prevent reverse engineering,
and ultimately keep cloned saws from eating into the big boys bank balance.

Echo and Makita seem to be passing the emissions criteria just fine
without going computerised control, so it’s not just the Chinese that are not
keeping up, if computerised saws is what’s good for the environment.

 

[Ford3000]

Had a look Alibaby, clones of all sorts from 50 dollars up,
no wonder the big boys went to China to manufacture.
We’re in for one severe hike when the shtf and it’s no longer
seen as popular or ethical to do business there.

 

[CR888]

China plays to the umpires whistle, this is not to say their honest and decent, it's to say they'll get away with what they can. They start producing heavily protected MT/AT hardware/software, they'll be in for a fight.

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

Well the Chinese have had at least 6 years to reverse engineer the AT MT
system, so to me it looks like they can’t do it.
Maybe the closed systems used were designed to prevent reverse engineering,
and ultimately keep cloned saws from eating into the big boys bank balance.

Echo and Makita seem to be passing the emissions criteria just fine
without going computerised control, so it’s not just the Chinese that are not
keeping up, if computerised saws is what’s good for the environment.

6 years and some dealers don’t understand AT/MT [emoji3]. The 500i doesn’t even have a carb. If people undated their saws regularly, then maybe we’d see clones, but as “vintage” saws are still being utilised commercially and domestically in large enough numbers, the need to hurry up and clone isn’t required.


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[BangBang77]

I think it is a fallacy to belive that China isn't capable of duplicating MT/AT technology.

I was part of an integration / joint venture in that part of the world. I built a $400 million USD manufacturing plant in Banting, Malaysia to produce graphite, carbon fiber composites, and semi-conductor parts. My employer invested heavily in the market and area, including 2 additonal sites in China.

Within 3 years, they (China) had duplicated the technology and was dominating the market. Once they figured out how to make graphite electrodes, cathodes, and anodes, they could then produce new steel cheaper than Europe and the USA could regen scrap steel.

They are capable, smart, and motivated. Do not underrate our enemy. When the juice is worth the squeeze, they will dive into the market and dominate. For the moment, the low-grade manufacturers in China are content to play the low-grade clone saw game, hence the current quality, or lack thereof.

Once the higher end mfrs jump into the game, Stihl and Husqvarna better hold on to their drawers, because the ride will be brutal. They will learn what my FORMER employer learned. It is lunacy for them to even manufacture carburetors there in my opinion.

 

[DND 9000]

Just wondering if the Chinese or anyone else have adopted the AT or MT
technology into their efforts, I have not seen any saws other than from Husqvarna
and Stihl using such tech

Echo has an electronic controlled carburetor too, on the CS-420EMS. That is similar like the AutoTune or M-Tronic.

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

I worked for a company that purchased the Siemans Velaro high speed train. Word was that there had been an accident in China with a Velaro, and Siemens went to investigate, and found plenty of cloned parts on the train, safety related and otherwise, and Siemens realised there was no money in the venture, and there was nothing they could do. Can’t remember if they walked away from it in the end.
It’s silly to think you can deal or manufacture in China, once they know they need it, they’ll make it. No copyright, intellectual rights, whatever you want to call it is respected there, and you the company will loose money, simple.
I’ve bought some high end cloned items, and they were top notch, you’d wonder how they manufacture such things when you look at some of the junk that comes out of there, depends on the company/market/price/audience I suppose.


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[Ford3000]

I worked for a company that purchased the Siemans Velaro high speed train. Word was that there had been an accident in China with a Velaro, and Siemens went to investigate, and found plenty of cloned parts on the train, safety related and otherwise, and Siemens realised there was no money in the venture, and there was nothing they could do. Can’t remember if they walked away from it in the end.
It’s silly to think you can deal or manufacture in China, once they know they need it, they’ll make it. No copyright, intellectual rights, whatever you want to call it is respected there, and you the company will loose money, simple.
I’ve bought some high end cloned items, and they were top notch, you’d wonder how they manufacture such things when you look at some of the junk that comes out of there, depends on the company/market/price/audience I suppose.


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Yes, a lot of companies got stung in China, they can’t be trusted or depended on.
I have taken the decision to buy non China products where at all possible, it’s more difficult than I thought, but slow down in items coming out of China will
open up other markets in the long run.

 

[Ford3000]

China plays to the umpires whistle, this is not to say their honest and decent, it's to say they'll get away with what they can. They start producing heavily protected MT/AT hardware/software, they'll be in for a fight.

And there was me thinking they didn’t make an AT saw because
the original didn’t meet their high standards.
Gave em too much credit there.

 

[Ford3000]

I worked for a company that purchased the Siemans Velaro high speed train. Word was that there had been an accident in China with a Velaro, and Siemens went to investigate, and found plenty of cloned parts on the train, safety related and otherwise, and Siemens realised there was no money in the venture, and there was nothing they could do. Can’t remember if they walked away from it in the end.
It’s silly to think you can deal or manufacture in China, once they know they need it, they’ll make it. No copyright, intellectual rights, whatever you want to call it is respected there, and you the company will loose money, simple.
I’ve bought some high end cloned items, and they were top notch, you’d wonder how they manufacture such things when you look at some of the junk that comes out of there, depends on the company/market/price/audience I suppose.


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Did Boing not have a siege with them too, got / taught them
to make wings, then they upped the already agreed upon price.

 

[Ford3000]

Echo has an electronic controlled carburetor too, on the CS-420EMS. That is similar like the AutoTune or M-Tronic.

Would you have a link to this item.

 

[DND 9000]

here:
https://www.echotools.com/en_us/products/chain-saws/chain-saw/cs-420ems_37

 

[BangBang77]

I worked for a company that purchased the Siemans Velaro high speed train. Word was that there had been an accident in China with a Velaro, and Siemens went to investigate, and found plenty of cloned parts on the train, safety related and otherwise, and Siemens realised there was no money in the venture, and there was nothing they could do. Can’t remember if they walked away from it in the end.
It’s silly to think you can deal or manufacture in China, once they know they need it, they’ll make it. No copyright, intellectual rights, whatever you want to call it is respected there, and you the company will loose money, simple.
I’ve bought some high end cloned items, and they were top notch, you’d wonder how they manufacture such things when you look at some of the junk that comes out of there, depends on the company/market/price/audience I suppose.


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Spot on brother. That is their main purpose to these so-called "joint ventures".

They are playing chess and Europe and the USA are playing checkers.

 

[kneedeepinsaws]

90% sure that they see a market with autotune. They are selling plenty of copies of previous gen stuff.
to have an AM autotune carb and coil available would be a HUGE gamechanger.
I am also very very sure that they will give us what we have always wanted, user end software that can be adjusted.
Usually manufacturers encrypt data and make integrated circuits through only one manufacturer in which it is only available to the owner of the tech. Basically these are custom chips, although they probably have a date code And part number, they will not be for sale from the manufacturer due to a legal binding contract. So they cant just buy the proprietary chips and build their own board.
It may be possible for a user to instead of dissect the integrated circuit in question, but rather monitor the signals it gives off in order to figure out what it exactly does. This would be where china would shine as they have some truly talented people over there.
Point being it would not be hard for them to dismantle a fuel unit from an autotune carb, analyze how it works, and piggy back from the unit to the ECU and monitor the signals to figure out how exactly its working. From there the rest will be easy for them.

they have already gone the strato route, its just a matter of time before they goto autotune/mtronic.

will be very exciting to have software we can actually use instead of just the privileged.

 

[Ford3000]

here:
https://www.echotools.com/en_us/products/chain-saws/chain-saw/cs-420ems_37

Thank you, I found a similar link, but no where seems to sell them,
is the saw on the market long, or is this a very recent development.
I see very little about it online other than from Echo.

 

[heavy_oil_saw]

90% sure that they see a market with autotune. They are selling plenty of copies of previous gen stuff.
to have an AM autotune carb and coil available would be a HUGE gamechanger.
I am also very very sure that they will give us what we have always wanted, user end software that can be adjusted.
Usually manufacturers encrypt data and make integrated circuits through only one manufacturer in which it is only available to the owner of the tech. Basically these are custom chips, although they probably have a date code And part number, they will not be for sale from the manufacturer due to a legal binding contract. So they cant just buy the proprietary chips and build their own board.
It may be possible for a user to instead of dissect the integrated circuit in question, but rather monitor the signals it gives off in order to figure out what it exactly does. This would be where china would shine as they have some truly talented people over there.
Point being it would not be hard for them to dismantle a fuel unit from an autotune carb, analyze how it works, and piggy back from the unit to the ECU and monitor the signals to figure out how exactly its working. From there the rest will be easy for them.

they have already gone the strato route, its just a matter of time before they goto autotune/mtronic.

will be very exciting to have software we can actually use instead of just the privileged.

I agree whole heartedly, give me a saw with an ECU, and the software to play with it. This is where Stihl and Husky will miss out.
How many DIYers have scan tools for their vehicle? It doesn’t fix your car, but it certainly lowers the “where do I start?”.
Don’t get me wrong, I ain’t a fan of what China does, but it knows who and why people are buying from them, and like said before, dominates the market. Would you buy a known brand with all the cards to its chest paying dealer repair rates, or a cheaper, just as reliable brand and able to diagnose and repair yourself, and of course the parts are just as cheap.


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