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Loony661

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There is also a reason why the biggest saw manufacturers in the world, have modify and built many powerboats, designs as well as bars and chains around American cutting, as well as books and cutting methods and schools. Many have tried to reinvent the wheel, and none have replaced or beaten out the old tried and true west coast falling and tree work methods.
It’s definitely a regional thing. Here in the midwest, specifically South Eastern Minnesota along the Mississippi river valley, bore cutting for felling is used 90% of the time on hardwoods. If we don’t bore cut, and also don’t remove the heartwood from the hinge, we risk pulling heartwood and losing very valuable wood, fast. It should also be noted, that I don’t feel we can just backcut like you guys because our trees are so much shorter on average. Most trees I’m cutting are 40-70ft tall. By the time it starts going over, I cannot cut fast enough to get the hinge narrow enough to 1) be safe 2) not wreck wood 3) give myself enough time to exit. I’ve watched a lot of west coast vids and I can tell you that you guys have a lot more time to continue the cut and also escape safely than I do here.
 

Loony661

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@Normzilla Honestly I think it would be awesome to travel out west and spend a couple days felling to experience the difference. And likewise, host on my end to show what we do here.
 

Normzilla

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@Normzilla Honestly I think it would be awesome to travel out west and spend a couple days felling to experience the difference. And likewise, host on my end to show what we do here.
I do hardwoods too, depends in the tree and what we are doing. The big ones for timber, and or more accurate shots, we wedge them save on breakage. And give more holding wood for placement and safety. Some trees we saw nearly off the stump as falling, in theory most trees are supposed to be wedged most times. It's not that we have more time, trees I van burn many of the stump if desired. As well as we are cutting trees you mentioned and in between as well, if it's a lack of time as falling, there is a technique issue or too small of a poweehead. We are still using west coast methods, on all the trees and sizes. The bore cutting with small nars takes way more cuts and time. Also the certain trees heavy leaders or some compromised trees were still applying the same methods, but handle some different. For most production falling outfits here Humboldt face and low stumps are mandatory, many won't allow a conventional face, for safety and protection biars footage. We can get more out of the tree with a Humboldt, and just as low or lower stumps. And it's safer on steep ground. What I've watched learned, and applied it's boiling down to guys preferring a smaller saw, and bar and adapting cuts to match, that's cool but definitely a style and preference thing.
 

Loony661

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I do hardwoods too, depends in the tree and what we are doing. The big ones for timber, and or more accurate shots, we wedge them save on breakage. And give more holding wood for placement and safety. Some trees we saw nearly off the stump as falling, in theory most trees are supposed to be wedged most times. It's not that we have more time, trees I van burn many of the stump if desired. As well as we are cutting trees you mentioned and in between as well, if it's a lack of time as falling, there is a technique issue or too small of a poweehead. We are still using west coast methods, on all the trees and sizes. The bore cutting with small nars takes way more cuts and time. Also the certain trees heavy leaders or some compromised trees were still applying the same methods, but handle some different. For most production falling outfits here Humboldt face and low stumps are mandatory, many won't allow a conventional face, for safety and protection biars footage. We can get more out of the tree with a Humboldt, and just as low or lower stumps. And it's safer on steep ground. What I've watched learned, and applied it's boiling down to guys preferring a smaller saw, and bar and adapting cuts to match, that's cool but definitely a style and preference thing.
I can see that. Well said. Now my curiosity is even greater to experience what you guys do out there on the daily. Maybe someday..
 

Normzilla

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What I didn’t know was the the dude (Jed Walters) was apparently a big deal with skateboarding in the 1990s, then just up and quit because he felt like he was falling away from Christianity.

Dude always appeared to be a good man and a very skilled tree guy. Never knew him but he seemed like he was good.

And now the service be worked for lost their superintendent and one of their foremen from just treating one of them poorly and one of them dying at work. Not a good look…
This one really hit home, I follow all their stuff. The video jacob Roger's put together made my wife and I cry. What a loss did not know him personally but kinda felt like I know these guys through all their stuff.
 

Loony661

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What I didn’t know was the the dude (Jed Walters) was apparently a big deal with skateboarding in the 1990s, then just up and quit because he felt like he was falling away from Christianity.

Dude always appeared to be a good man and a very skilled tree guy. Never knew him but he seemed like he was good.

And now the service be worked for lost their superintendent and one of their foremen from just treating one of them poorly and one of them dying at work. Not a good look…
A guy’s gotta respect him even more for walkin away from going Pro because of his faith. Not just anyone would do that.
 

davidwyby

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I usually cut brittle yard trees in the desert but have gotten to cut tall pines in the mountains too. Different worlds…the taller trees do see slower. A 100’ arc takes longer to swing than a 50’.

I did an experiment once, two 40” plus pines. One with a 42” bar and one 24”. The stubby bar and dancing around the tree bent over is just silly to me. Trying to line up twice as many cuts. Tons of time, effort and skill/experience required. You watch those European guys and they are working their tails off hustling. 36” lightweight would have been the best. Loony, I don’t think you run stubby bars like in Europe…norm, check out afleetcommand on YT…shows the how n why.

I have cut along the river bottom too where I could only access one side of the tree…light saw, long bar. Europeans could go 1/3 longer bar with skip and save a lot of hopscotch.
 
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Normzilla

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I usually cut brittle yard trees in the desert but have gotten to cut tall pines in the mountains too. Different worlds…the taller trees do see slower. A 100’ arc takes longer to swing than a 50’.

I did an experiment once, two 40” plus pines. One with a 42” bar and one 24”. The stubby bar and dancing around the tree bent over is just silly to me. Trying to line up twice as many cuts. Tons of time, effort and skill/experience required. You watch those European guys and they are working their tails off hustling. 36” lightweight would have been the best. Loony, I don’t think you run stubby bars like in Europe…norm, check out afleetcommand on YT…shows the how n why.

I have cut along the river bottom too where I could only access one side of the tree…light saw, long bar. Europeans could go 1/3 longer bar with skip and save a lot of hopscotch.
Agreed and I'll check it out thanks.
 

Loony661

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A 100’ arc takes longer to swing than a 50’.
This is what I was getting at with my shorter trees comment. Thank you for explaining it better with your words.

Loony, I don’t think you run stubby bars like in Europe
No, I run 25” all day everyday. Typically cutting trees from one side only (notch, plunge, and back cut/trigger). If I get in some very nice timber, then I’ll plunge from both sides. But aligning the cuts isn’t super critical because we clean them up again anyway 80% of the time. Here, the mills don’t have rules about how the wood comes in (notches are OK on butt log). Every log is cut 7-8” longer for them to trim the ends to size later anyway - and 95% of my logs are 8’s, 10’s, and 12 ft long. 8’s being most common.
 

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I’ve never really watched how the Euro’s do it. Now you guys have me curious.. I’ll have to check it out just to see.
Height and tree it still depends on the tree and layout, and the ground. Holding wood of the tree too and species. Their are alot of great guys on YouTube. But I feel too many guys are youtube cutters that's where they learn and what they apply. And so many trying to reinvent the wheel for likes, attention curiosity whatever. On these west coast gro7nds, have been the proving grounds for what works, what's safest best, qnd most productive. Millions of board feet are still hitting the ground here, as well as hard wood and hazard fire trees etc. Loony661 none of this directed toward you, just me throwing this out there. I feel youtube has helped many, but hurt just as many. Lots of yahoo's out there. The timing of a tree falling relies on soany factors.
 

Normzilla

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I usually cut brittle yard trees in the desert but have gotten to cut tall pines in the mountains too. Different worlds…the taller trees do see slower. A 100’ arc takes longer to swing than a 50’.

I did an experiment once, two 40” plus pines. One with a 42” bar and one 24”. The stubby bar and dancing around the tree bent over is just silly to me. Trying to line up twice as many cuts. Tons of time, effort and skill/experience required. You watch those European guys and they are working their tails off hustling. 36” lightweight would have been the best. Loony, I don’t think you run stubby bars like in Europe…norm, check out afleetcommand on YT…shows the how n why.

I have cut along the river bottom too where I could only access one side of the tree…light saw, long bar. Europeans could go 1/3 longer bar with skip and save a lot of hopscotch.
So I looked up the afleetcommand, what was I looking for?
 

Loony661

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Height and tree it still depends on the tree and layout, and the ground. Holding wood of the tree too and species. Their are alot of great guys on YouTube. But I feel too many guys are youtube cutters that's where they learn and what they apply. And so many trying to reinvent the wheel for likes, attention curiosity whatever. On these west coast gro7nds, have been the proving grounds for what works, what's safest best, qnd most productive. Millions of board feet are still hitting the ground here, as well as hard wood and hazard fire trees etc. Loony661 none of this directed toward you, just me throwing this out there. I feel youtube has helped many, but hurt just as many. Lots of yahoo's out there. The timing of a tree falling relies on soany factors.
No offense taken. And I absolutely agree that there are a lot of variables to consider. Heck, even here the same tree species act entirely different based on time of year and temperature. Some we can cut all winter long without a problem, but as soon as they thaw, they get “sticky” and are hard to cut well. Lots of other factors just with the wood fibers as well.. I also was not digging at you, just so you know.
 

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I’ve never really watched how the Euro’s do it. Now you guys have me curious.. I’ll have to check it out just to
No offense taken. And I absolutely agree that there are a lot of variables to consider. Heck, even here the same tree species act entirely different based on time of year and temperature. Some we can cut all winter long without a problem, but as soon as they thaw, they get “sticky” and are hard to cut well. Lots of other factors just with the wood fibers as well.. I also was not digging at you, just so you know.
I do know and appreciate that as not digging. Thanks and totally appreciate it
 

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Normzilla

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He shows good examples of using a steep face cut, bore cutting with hold wood, and a plunge cut on the hinge for trees at risk of barber chair.

Here's an excellent example:

https://www.youtube.com/embed/R-9SbljCwEc?start=1147&end=1335
Thanks for sharing. I'm totally clear in the style and technique. It's just still for guys who like packing small saws, ots alot of extra cutting and slower process. If it works in 1 guys neck of the woods for a guy that's cool. I'm not against it, but I see alot of extra work and methods that won't work or are unnecessary for applications here. This is not directed at you but when guys say that's the only way and safer and more accurate that's not accurate statement wise. It boils down too running smaller saws as a preference and it justifies why one cuts that way and that's cool. Not saying we never have to bore into a tree, on specific situations sure but not much at all in real world here where I'm cutting not much of that applies.
 

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Thanks for sharing. I'm totally clear in the style and technique. It's just still for guys who like packing small saws, ots alot of extra cutting and slower process. If it works in 1 guys neck of the woods for a guy that's cool. I'm not against it, but I see alot of extra work and methods that won't work or are unnecessary for applications here. This is not directed at you but when guys say that's the only way and safer and more accurate that's not accurate statement wise. It boils down too running smaller saws as a preference and it justifies why one cuts that way and that's cool. Not saying we never have to bore into a tree, on specific situations sure but not much at all in real world here where I'm cutting not much of that applies.

Likewise, I wasn't trying to butt in and say this is only way to cut trees. It appears everyone here is in agreement that people should cut the safest way they know how, and depending on species, time of year, forest conditions, equipment on hand, etc. it can be different for everyone. Different cuts for different cutters. I was simply answering your question "what was I looking for" about his videos. He's showing one technique that has inherent risk mitigation when applied correctly.

I do think for people in the east cutting larger hardwoods who want to prioritize safety over everything else, there's no safer technique to use in those situations than what he's showing. Sure there's plenty of safe ways to cut, some may be equally as safe, but none are any safer in the conditions he's showing.

IMHO, when it comes to safety this technique is definitely near the top for many situations.
 

davidwyby

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@Normzilla, @afleetcommand cuts his trees how he does because the trees demand it. If he doesn’t bore and gut the hinge, they fiber pull and or barber chair. That type of wood is very prone to splitting and fiber pull damages valuable wood. Sometimes he runs 70cc and sometimes 95.
 
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