I let my clutch-cover get *packed*, and a clutch-spring failed; What damages should I look for?

[Cerberus]

tl-dr: If you were dumb enough to not notice your clutch-cover was so packed that it was forcibly pushing debris/pulp into the clutch-drum, and this caused enough heat/friction to cause the clutch to pop a spring and make it so the machine was run, at low power but was run, in a condition wherein the chain was truly 'mated' to the engine, throwing the chain break would stall it out (because the clutch was perma-engaged while its spring was broke!!)

I have replacement parts coming, and am taking the opportunity to "patch some holes" on this new unit while it's on the bench, but wanna ensure I'm not missing some damages incurred from my errors here, and "rebuilding on faulty foundations" yknow! I checked the clutch-drum for true-ness with digital calipers, it was remarkably true... didn't really know what to check besides that, it "ran great" after the break (thankfully not for long at all, and not at full power or close-to) but was run in this condition where the clutch//engine//chain are all together, throwing the chain-brake - which I did - would stall the engine in this state! But it ran and felt normal when I was ~1/3rd revving in light Ficus wood while testing (before I discovered it I spent ~10min fiddling w/ it thinking it was the carb because this is a saw with a carb that won't return to true idle-RPM, chain spins unless you have the brake on, so I figured it was that, not the clutch, until a lil diagnosis)

Thanks a ton, don't wanna build further on it til I know whether just rebuilding the clutch is sufficient, the oiler gears and all behind the clutch look OK but I don't know what to look for :/

 

[Kiwioilboiler]

but I don't know what to look for :/

Try a smaller font for your thread titles.

 

[Cerberus]

I should mention that it got hot-enough to put a slight blueing onto the clutch 'shoe' edge that was un-sprung, also that this heat was surely why the e-clip at the end of the shaft, and even the clutch-drum itself once it was free on the shaft, both required a gentle-but-firm tap to 'free' them, they wouldn't move by-hand at first like they should (I have 2 units of same saw so I could compare! This problem occurred on the newer unit, and it's a clone and 1 thing I've noticed is there isn't nearly enough heavy-grease in places you'd want it, this area being one IMO, will be using marine grease (calcium polysulfide / blue grease) like usual when reinstalling once replacement arrives!)

 

[Cerberus]

Try a smaller font for your thread titles.

From my viewpoint, there's no difference in thread-fonts at all.....am using firefox maybe it's an add-on blocking it? Have never known you could mess with font attributes in of the title-line at all..

 

[Kiwioilboiler]

From my viewpoint, there's no difference in thread-fonts at all.....am using firefox maybe it's an add-on blocking it? Have never known you could mess with font attributes in of the title-line at all..

Well something is up.

 

[smokey7]

Masterminds words of a kit saw being chinese junk is pretty accurate. I understand the attraction to them but they are very difficult to make into a good reliable worksaw. I have a hard time believing a packed up clutch cover could break a spring on a inboard clutch like on a 660 stihl. Im willing to bet a oem saw would be still going even with a blockage. I noodle lots of logs and jam ups happen quite often never broke anything from it.

 

[Whiskers]

Grease? For what? If there’s no visible damage. Put a new clutch on and see how it runs. Doesn’t sound like a plastic saw, so it didn’t melt.

 

[Nutball]

Genuine 660 from the local tree service:

Still runs well

 

[smokey7]

To me it sounds like this saw may have had a clutch or spring issue from the start.

This is the blue g660 you bought to replace the one that got burnt up from mastermind?

 

[Cerberus]

[1st 3, of 5, replies:

Well something is up.

(Re the font of my thread titles) Is everyone else seeing my titles coming through anomalously? Would really love to know what's what I mean if I'm putting out titles that are the equivalent of all-caps, w/o being aware, would like to be made-aware Kiwioil this is the 1st anyone's ever mentioned it in years of being here, I tried looking at it from a private browser not logged-in and am not seeing it..)

Masterminds words of a kit saw being chinese junk is pretty accurate. I understand the attraction to them but they are very difficult to make into a good reliable worksaw. I have a hard time believing a packed up clutch cover could break a spring on a inboard clutch like on a 660 stihl. Im willing to bet a oem saw would be still going even with a blockage. I noodle lots of logs and jam ups happen quite often never broke anything from it.

Palm fibers are different than wood (palms don't even have wood actually) and a packed cover will get MUCH hotter because it's like a big tight wet sponge, I was bore-cutting w/ a 32" at end of day so chain wasn't sharp as it should be, ETC ETC, I'm not saying I think the Holzff spring was "probably about as good" as OEM, I don't think that at all and this type of breakage was totally in-line w/ expectations, thankfully it's literally the only problem so far (besides the other unit having a hung ring but I still don't know what to make of that because it happened on starter-pull #1 or #2 as I spent nearly 1wk thinking "wow I understand why guys use those D-handles, but - even w/ a D-handle - I can't believe the starter mechanism can stand up to this" (MM had put an OEM starter setup on it, which I somehow/thankfully didn't break, if anything that is a testament to Stihl-strength right there, I probably started that thing w/ the piston-bits in-cylinder maybe near 10X, jerking that starter 2-3X per startup, for nearly a week until carb-enrichment failed to keep it running & I discovered the true problem!)

In this case though it's the 1 problem, so far, I can actually blame on chinesium! TBF though neither unit has seen extended usage yet, considering both of the top-end rebuilds were just finished in the past week or so (and the blue one has to come apart again or "should" because I don't like how the piston looks after 2-2.5 tanks through it)

Grease? For what? If there’s no visible damage. Put a new clutch on and see how it runs. Doesn’t sound like a plastic saw, so it didn’t melt.

Grease, for the clutch (especially the needle-/roller-cage bearing it rolls on the shaft upon!)

I used to just use brake-clean and blast out my clutch/sprocket area on my 25cc climbsaw, I think I had to open that thing up to lube the roller-cage 2 or 3 times before I realized it was because of the brake-clean. To be clear though, I'm not saying clutches need frequent greasing as part of long-term routine maintenance! In the case of my Blue boy here, I'm talking about brand-new stuff that has not bedded-in yet (this absolutely includes clutch components), having no hard-grease there while it's 'breaking in' is bad news IMO (and I've gotta imagine Stihl uses real grease on parts of their saws during manufacture, whereas this Blue boy it's probably safe to presume that the assemblers just have *1* oil-spray for the thing, to save time, hell the unit itself was oily all the plastic lol, appears to be the same oil they used throughout the actual machine....the chain-tensioner, for example, is IMO something that absolutely needs hard grease/marine grease while it's bedding-in, it is a ROUGH mechanism and w/o heavy grease, and care-in-usage, I can totally see how people break them!)

 

[Cerberus]

To me it sounds like this saw may have had a clutch or spring issue from the start.

This is the blue g660 you bought to replace the one that got burnt up from mastermind?

Yes it is 'Blue Boy' that I got prebuilt but it's not a replacement, if anything it's "backup" to the MM unit....I know @Nutball put it as succinctly & funny as possible when quoting me saying "I want reliability so I'm ordering a G666" lol, but the reality is the MM unit just needed a new top-end and it's been a thumper ever since, and - in buying the Blue unit and the top-end kitS - I see that as "backup", I'll have (I have.) two units, when 1 fails I grab the other or I grab the necessary piece from the other!

I agree it had a bad spring (or clutch issue) from the start, this broken clutch spring is actually the sole gripe I can point at chinesium for!

Genuine 660 from the local tree service:
View attachment 316666
Still runs well

Have no doubt, though in my case I think it was "a lucky break" because I'd rather have to replace a spring or clutch, than if I'd put an OEM clutch in there and it took that heat and transferred it straight to the Holzff bearings/crank, I think I 'got off lucky' with it breaking as it did before I toasted it further (and while palm fibers pack and heat far harder than wood does i know that was not the differentiating factor, it was certainly / obviously stihl V holzff!!!)

Will be interesting seeing just how much needs replacement/upgrading in the end, my two 660's approach wouldn't be worthwhile if starting from scratch but the unit MM gave me was overloaded with OEM parts like not just a few small ones (new Walbro carb, OEM starter assembly, tensioner etc etc), so I only had to buy my Blue unit and a few hundred in top-ends/tools/etc as I work on this platform.....If I were bucking big trees all day this wouldn't be nearly as viable a plan, either, but for me bucking means breaking up a 35-45' trunk I just felled, rarely >3' DBH, heck my cs590 is enough for most trunks here in coastal FL!

 

[Kiwioilboiler]

Font screenshot.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Try a smaller font for your thread titles.

I think it’s the long title “two lines”. But this is how i see it.
Edit on a ipad

 

[Wonkydonkey]

I think you will find the springs on them China-clutches are prone to breaking. I went that route putting new springs on a old oem clutch, it only made it for a few day till one popped.
Lucky I saved the old oem springs, cos in the end they all broke. So I ordered oem springs.

Edit, I will add that oem springs break sometimes,

If you got two saws,,, then I guess you can look at the good one and the bad one and compare them.

 

[Mastermind]

I'm thinking you might wanna get into a different line of work. LOL

 

[Cerberus]

@Kiwioilboiler Thanks for posting, I will be less wordy in titles hopefully it makes a difference, on my end it looks like Wonky's screenshot ie regular :/

@Wonkydonkey SO glad to hear that, my thinking exactly (unless you mean go full OEM there, I'm just referring to the springs) The next time there's a failure, and I'm messing around with them a bit so it's likely enough lol, but my thinking was getting OEM springs for the aftermarket clutch components.

If you're using an 8 pin sprocket instead of 7 pin, this is certainly harder on the clutch springs right? I keep trying to work it out in my head & cannot I keep thinking that the higher geared 8pin setup, while cutting, is harder on everything "up until the clutch" but I can't come to a guess as to whether it's harder on the engine (I keep thinking "it can't be harder, or much harder at least, because no matter what the clutch-drum will still slip at the appropriate force level")

I'm thinking you might wanna get into a different line of work. LOL

....to be clear, you mean "you're not going to be a good porter/tuner", and are not referring to my real work, correct? Just wanna be sure because you're like the only one who actually knows my real work and, being end-of-year last week, I was kinda thinking "Ok 2021 was good, 2022 will continue upwards just like 2021 and the 'approach' will basically be 'more of the same'", ie just keep doing my usual climbing/limb removals while continuing to try upping the % of jobs that are true/full removals (which has been a nice % rise the past ~1/3rd year at this point)

Just wanna be sure I'm not running down a path you think is foolish, you work on saws for a living so if my actual work with them is off-point I'd take your advice/opinions there very seriously!

And if you just mean what I hope, that I should get the heck away from this tinkering (which is the only context the half-dozen people Liking that comment would/could know of), well all I can say is you started it lol, that gift was far too awesome and working on them is actually affordable, I thought I appreciated what you gave me when I 1st got it but it's just been worth so much more as time went on

 

[Al Smith]

Tree service saws lead a tough life .They just run the dawg chit out of them ,never clean the crud out .Run dull chains and do half fast repairs if they do any at all . Generally speaking most people do not oil or grease the clutch needle bearing because it draws dust into the bearing .Fact the only saw I ever experienced that oiled the bearing was a Partner p-100 that was designed to do it . Normally a clutch drum and the clutch will last a long time .
One however I do remember which was a cooked 034 Stihl and it had a screwed up clutch, broken shoe .It had been ran with no bearing what so ever but it did not ruin the drum .Fixed that one with the clutch shoes from an 029 and replaced the top end with a cylinder from an 036 and last I heard it was still going strong after about 12-15 years as a firewood cutter .

 

[Mastermind]

Just wanna be sure I'm not running down a path you think is foolish, you work on saws for a living so if my actual work with them is off-point I'd take your advice/opinions there very seriously!

I'm just messing with you. You keep on learning. I admire anyone who is willing to teach themselves.

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Yes, I just ment oem springs for the clutch you already have.

i believe but I,m not 100% certain when you talk about 8 pin, it’s only harder on the clutch & drum when you stall the chain or start a cut with the chain on the wood .
Abit like trying to pull away in too high a gear in a car. But I’m not sure if you drive a stick shift car with a clutch, like 99% of us do here.

the springs are just springs doing a job, although too much heat doesn’t do them any favours