How i measure chain cutters. Keeping it equal.

[CoreyB]

I can not remember which thread I promised to show this in so I will start a new one.
I have found that needle nose vice grips works best. I have tried micrometers and calipers and a few other methods but this works best for me. Please whatch and share your methods . Also please leave a like and comment on the vid if you would.

 

[dahmer]

I can not remember which thread I promised to show this in so I will start a new one.
I have found that needle nose vice grips works best. I have tried micrometers and calipers and a few other methods but this works best for me. Please whatch and share your methods . Also please leave a like and comment on the vid if you would.

Your using the vise grips as a snap gage. Not a bad idea, if you would want to get more precise or see how much more to remove or how much too much you took off a pair of vernier calipers would work fine also. Nothing wrong with the vise grips, the verniers would be a bit more flexible for grind amounts.

 

[RD35]

I use a dial caliper to measure the left side after grinding. I measure several cutters (none will be exactly the same length, but all should be very close to the same) Then I take the average, lock the caliper to that dimension, and do just what you are doing. If our grinders were really precise, we would not need to make this adjustment. I am told the clamp shown in this video is one of the best for getting side to side consistency. My grinder has the cheaper tilt style without the roller ends. It always requires adjustment when switching sides. Nice video! Thanks for starting this thread!

 

[Firewood Bandit]

I have never worried about measuring the length of the cutters. I take just kiss the cutter and take enough to restore the edge.

 

[CoreyB]

I have never worried about measuring the length of the cutters. I take just kiss the cutter and take enough to restore the edge.

Unfortunately many chains that are brought to me for sharpening are far beyond a kiss.

 

[RI Chevy]

I would be afraid that I would dull the edge that I just sharpened using the vice grip method.

 

[radio]

I have never worried about measuring the length of the cutters. I take just kiss the cutter and take enough to restore the edge.

Unfortunately many chains that are brought to me for sharpening are far beyond a kiss.

It's not really necessary to make every cutter equal length. The most important parameters are that every cutter has the same geometry and is properly sharpened. If these 2 things are taken care of then variations in length will have negligible affect.

 

[p61 western]

As long as you have a progressive raker gauge the length of the tooth doesn't matter.

 

[radio]

As long as you have a progressive raker gauge the length of the tooth doesn't matter.

Yes, the geometry has the most influence.

 

[CoreyB]

Well for me it is easier to get each tooth the same then each depth guage off each individual tooth. With all teeth the same length I just have to check a couple depth gauges then hit each one. All on a Oregon grinders. This workflow may not work for all especially if you are not using some kind of jigged sharpener that makes each step consistent.

 

[radio]

Well for me it is easier to get each tooth the same then each depth guage off each individual tooth. With all teeth the same length I just have to check a couple depth gauges then hit each one. All on a Oregon grinders. This workflow may not work for all especially if you are not using some kind of jigged sharpener that makes each step consistent.

Understood. But what's easier for you can be costlier for your customer. If a customer comes in with a chain with 90% cutter length but one cutter is 30%, then chopping down all cutters to 30% to make sharpening easier cost the customer 60% of the value of the chain. And the fee most dealers charge to grind a chain is roughly 30% to 50% the cost of a new chain. In this case it is more cost effective for the customer to just buy a new chain. If it's your personal chain then none of what I said here and my previous posts matters.

 

[Philbert]

I grind all the cutters on one side; grind one tooth on the other side; hold it back-to-back with a tooth on the other side; visually inspect; and adjust.

if I am unsure, I intentionally grind the cutter on the second side a little bit longer, then adjust it to length.

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

It's not really necessary to make every cutter equal length.

As long as you have a progressive raker gauge the length of the tooth doesn't matter.

The chains will still cut, but not as smoothly.


As the cutter gets shorter in length, it also gets shorter in height. If adjacent cutters are significantly taller or shorter, the tooth can skip or bounce, which would result in vibration at the 60mph +/- chain speed. Getting all teeth / cutters the same height on any saw is referred to as 'jointing' the teeth.



Same thing with cutting width, A shorter cutter will produce a narrower kerf. Again, resulting in less efficient cutting, and possibly, more vibration. Getting all teeth / cutters on a saw to cut the same kerf is referred to as 'setting' the teeth.

Part of the genius of 'modern' saw chain (now 70 years old!) is that a single file stroke can sharpen the scoring cutter (side plate); sharpen the raker (top plate is the real chip raker); joint and set the tooth. Each step used to take forever on older crosscut saws and scratcher chains, and required much more skill.

Well for me it is easier to get each tooth the same then each depth guage off each individual tooth. With all teeth the same length I just have to check a couple depth gauges then hit each one.

Grinding efficiency is much easier when each tooth is the same. 'Progressive' setting of individual depth gauges is easier when hand filing each cutter individually. As with @CoreyB, many of the chains that I rehab on the grinder also need more than a 'touch up' sharpening. Many also need to be 'evened up' after some less than professional hand filing - cutter angles and lengths can vary quite a bit, and this brings them back to a more consistent chain.

If a customer comes in with a chain with 90% cutter length but one cutter is 30%, then chopping down all cutters to 30% to make sharpening easier cost the customer 60% of the value of the chain.

My 'customers' are mostly non-profit groups that I volunteer with, or friends. I try to maximize the life of their chains. If 1 or 2 cutters are much shorter (say they hit something), I grind those back and sharpen them separately, and let them 'ride' until the rest of the cutters catch up. If the cutters are all over the place, due to careless filing, or if all of the Right side cutters are different than all of the Left side cutters (not uncommon), then the chain needs 'special attention'.

Philbert

 

[CR888]

I find similar to many folks who hand file, you file one side of cutters more than the other. But even when grinding a chain I do it as well, its always the left cutters end up shorter as the chain gets towards the end of its life. Following 'text book' filing/grinding techniques like filing each cutter to the length of the shortest one will yield a nice chain but will also greatly reduce the amount of wood it cuts in its life. Working out what you can & can't get away with is the key to balance chain life and performance IMO.

 

[Dustin4185]

Good thread going on here. Most of you all know I work for a state agency. Most of our workers use the "it's not my money" approach and buy new chains after they rock them or hit something in a tree. I purchased an Oregon grinder and have tried to get them to let me sharpen their chains. The other day I was at another WMA an picked up 20-84 DL chains and 30-72 DL chains - all Stihl RSC. The ones I looked at are mostly just dull. I asked their supervisor which is a good friend of mine if they even knew how to file a chain? He didn't know they were just buying new chains! I told him the chains they gave me and the average price, and he about went through the roof! He is purchasing a grinder soon and wants me to give them some pointers.

With all that being said, I use the same approach as Philbert. I let a few ride shorter until the other catch up. If it is a lot of teeth damaged, I hang it on the damaged nail. If the chain took that hard if a lick, I probably don't want it on my saws.

 

[CoreyB]

Ya I also never grime do the shortest. For shorts i have a file next to the grinders and touch it up and do depth gauge before getting the next tooth. My rule is 3 shorts in a row. Any more then that then we need to talk about your chain. I do not want to remove a bunch of material from each tooth. Takes to long and is unessisary ware on my equipment.

 

[dahmer]

Good thread going on here. Most of you all know I work for a state agency. Most of our workers use the "it's not my money" approach and buy new chains after they rock them or hit something in a tree. I purchased an Oregon grinder and have tried to get them to let me sharpen their chains. The other day I was at another WMA an picked up 20-84 DL chains and 30-72 DL chains - all Stihl RSC. The ones I looked at are mostly just dull. I asked their supervisor which is a good friend of mine if they even knew how to file a chain? He didn't know they were just buying new chains! I told him the chains they gave me and the average price, and he about went through the roof! He is purchasing a grinder soon and wants me to give them some pointers.

With all that being said, I use the same approach as Philbert. I let a few ride shorter until the other catch up. If it is a lot of teeth damaged, I hang it on the damaged nail. If the chain took that hard if a lick, I probably don't want it on my saws.

I agree with your ideas but as in anything anymore, if you have workers that don’t feel it’s there job, they won’t grind the teeth correct on purpose or crash the grinder so they can go back to buying chains. Shame people don’t take pride in their work anymore. A good ground chain is actually an art.

 

[Dustin4185]

I agree with your ideas but as in anything anymore, if you have workers that don’t feel it’s there job, they won’t grind the teeth correct on purpose or crash the grinder so they can go back to buying chains. Shame people don’t take pride in their work anymore. A good ground chain is actually an art.

I totally agree. I have been trying to learn the tricks to grinding a good chain. They have a few workers that will do it. I think it was mostly a lack of knowledge and the fact the dealer charges $8.00-$10.00 per chain to grind. I have witnessed burnt cutters from that dealer as well (I used them in the past). I used to hand file all of mine, but since I got a grinder and CBN wheels, I can turn out a decent chain with a machine. I'm just happy to have enough chains for our saws to last a while!

 

[Philbert]

For some companies, it makes sense to buy chains in bulk quantities, at a discount, then sell the 'used once - never sharpened' chains via eBay, etc. They only cut with new chains.

But this still takes attention to detail to make it work efficiently.

One of our local dealers does a lot of sharpening for state and county agencies, local utilities, etc. But they do a good job.

Lots of ways to make it work.

Philbert

 

[Skisawyer]

GREAT thread. I do a lot low stumping, i.e. flush cutting stumps to ground level after felling/thinning, and rocking chains is inevitable, mountains are made of rocks it turns out...

I hand file in the field and at home. It’s definitely a skill. But at the same time, it’s not THAT hard... can’t learn if you don’t do.

I don’t have a grinder, yet, but I recently broke down a picked up a Timberline sharpener jig deal to help bring my hand sharpening into a more consistent geometry. I am sensitive to vibration after carpal tunnel surgery...

Now I have only used it 4 times, so I can’t speak to a years worth of use, but I am please with it thus far, since I don’t own a decent grinder...

It really helps get the angles consistent on one side. But does anyone have tips on matching the second side to the first. I end up changing the adjustments when I switch sides.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

-Drew