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Wood/LUMBER density, toughness, hardness

michaelmj11

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I have heard quite a bit said about how tough the Australian stuff is (idk never been there, I will take their word on it), but there feels like a need to point out, that Oak and Maple are NOT the toughest out there (not by a long shot).

Miller Modded saws (I don't know his first name) posted a video showing off a new saw that Some felt demonstrated the saw under-performing, BUT it was cutting Osage Orange, Hedge Apple, Horse Apple, Bois'dark, Maclura pomifera. I have never seen it's hardness rated lower that 2040, and have seen it as high as 2700. White Oak is 1350......, Australian Blue gum 2023.

Osage Orange, Maclura pomifera. Is the toughest wood native to the North American Continent.

http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/osage-orange/

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Heck Black Locust is only 1700
 

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Miller Mod Saws

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I think it's the highest btu output for wood. However it's has caused many house fires. You better have a good stove if your burning straight hedge!
 

Miller Mod Saws

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I have a chart if this at work. But figured I would show ya what I mean. So I Google it and this is the chart that first popped up! Screenshot_2016-02-06-01-08-01.png
 

weedkilla

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Wood density and hardness varies massively with rainfall. I can drive 100km and go from 40" annual rainfall to 10" annual rainfall.
I'm sure I can find a "Aussie hardwood" local to me that isn't as hard as a North American desert species.
The next big variation is green or dead. Massive difference.
Then talk about clean vs dirty, and the game changes again.

I cut lots of green oak/elm/willow/pine for work, and plenty of dead, termite infested eucalyptus for firewood.
The best example I can give is going from a saw that fills your boots with chip pulling 32" of full comp, full chisel and being sharpened every couple of tanks to same saw pulling 24" semi chisel and not getting a tank before sharpening. Or full chisel and make a cut and it's dull.

"Aussie hardwood" is a massive generalisation, but as a rule, you don't get a trailer load of firewood down here without cutting some filth.
Same goes for the rest of the world I'd imagine, local cutting conditions vary.
Numbers in a table only mean so much, just matching saw, chain and raker depth to what you are cutting means so much more.
Also means that before and after videos are the only way to have half an idea when looking at saw mods done thousands of miles away.

Edited to add more dribble.
 
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michaelmj11

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Wood density and hardness varies massively with rainfall. I can drive 100km and go from 40" annual rainfall to 10" annual rainfall.
I'm sure I can find a "Aussie hardwood" local to me that isn't as hard as a North American desert species.
The next big variation is green or dead. Massive difference.
Then talk about clean vs dirty, and the game changes again.

I cut lots of green oak/elm/willow/pine for work, and plenty of dead, termite infested eucalyptus for firewood.
The best example I can give is going from a saw that fills your boots with chip pulling 32" of full comp, full chisel and being sharpened every couple of tanks to same saw pulling 24" semi chisel and not getting a tank before sharpening. Or full chisel and make a cut and it's dull.

Oh I got yah in the variance, it was one of the reasons I pointed out the varying numbers reported for Osage. And I think for the charts sake they were measuring clean heart wood, not how difficult it is to cut with a chainsaw (but who knows, I sure don't)
 

weedkilla

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Oh I got yah in the variance, it was one of the reasons I pointed out the varying numbers reported for Osage. And I think for the charts sake they were measuring clean heart wood, not how difficult it is to cut with a chainsaw (but who knows, I sure don't)
Yep. Those numbers were generated to help those building with timber, not cutting it.
 

weedkilla

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Well, Carl's chart is about heat produced when you burn it.
I'd love to see olive on one of those charts. It's the hardest, heaviest, coldest burning wood I know.
 

michaelmj11

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Well, Carl's chart is about heat produced when you burn it.
I'd love to see olive on one of those charts. It's the hardest, heaviest, coldest burning wood I know.

Coldest? I know I'm not into thermodynamics, entropy, enthaply, chaos theory, exothermic and endothermic; but I thought hard woods burned hotter. . . . ?

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weedkilla

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Coldest? I know I'm not into thermodynamics, entropy, enthaply, chaos theory, exothermic and endothermic; but I thought hard woods burned hotter. . . . ?

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I've got no idea really, but it just doesn't put out a lot of heat. It's a weird timber.
It burns like its green, even when it is shed dried for a couple of years it's little different to 6 months after its cut.
 

weedkilla

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My math might be way off? but say a cord of firewood is about 3.6m3 and 1m3 of Red ironbark is about 122okg (green) so a cord of Australian Ironbark would be well over 8 thousand pounds and that's leaving out well over a thousand pounds for air(split stacked neat firewood)...
I've cut lots of different Australian hardwoods to me Blue gum is soft its like butter to cut, I like it makes your saw seem fast :roto2rie:..
They do use blue gum to make paper...
 

michaelmj11

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For those who do not live in the south/Midwest; OsageOrange, Hedge Apple, Horse Apple, Bois'dark, Maclura pomifera. Is referring to just one tree, and those are it's many names.

It is said that when the French and English settled America, that one bow made from this wood was worth 1 horse, 2 nice blankets, and a pretty woman. The bows were found traded as far east as the Chesapeake bay.

The name Osage Orange comes from the Osage Native Americans who used the wood to make bows, hence the French naming the tree Bois'dark (bow wood, or some such)
 

Carbine

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I have a chart if this at work. But figured I would show ya what I mean. So I Google it and this is the chart that first popped up! View attachment 9150

I'm sure that list isn't far off, but a couple of those are questionable to me. I've burned almost everything on there (toward the top of the list), and would believe black locust to be near the top (I've seen other studies to suggest this).
Ironwood (hop hornbeam) is some pretty spooky stuff too... You can throw a hardwood mix in the stove (with one piece of ironwood), come back in an hour to coals and a piece of ironwood that only loooks charred lol.
 

Agent Orange

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For those who do not live in the south/Midwest; OsageOrange, Hedge Apple, Horse Apple, Bois'dark, Maclura pomifera. Is referring to just one tree, and those are it's many names.

It is said that when the French and English settled America, that one bow made from this wood was worth 1 horse, 2 nice blankets, and a pretty woman. The bows were found traded as far east as the Chesapeake bay.

The name Osage Orange comes from the Osage Native Americans who used the wood to make bows, hence the French naming the tree Bois'dark (bow wood, or some such)
Man, I better learn to make bows!! That's a hell of a deal for two blankets ! Thanks for the history, learned something useful.
 

Miller Mod Saws

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For those who do not live in the south/Midwest; OsageOrange, Hedge Apple, Horse Apple, Bois'dark, Maclura pomifera. Is referring to just one tree, and those are it's many names.

It is said that when the French and English settled America, that one bow made from this wood was worth 1 horse, 2 nice blankets, and a pretty woman. The bows were found traded as far east as the Chesapeake bay.

The name Osage Orange comes from the Osage Native Americans who used the wood to make bows, hence the French naming the tree Bois'dark (bow wood, or some such)
Very nice history lesson. Today we call them fence posts! :)
 
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