ring & pinion seal replacement crush sleeve question

[Al Smith]

I'm not exactly sure what is going on here .It's a leaky seal but every suggestion is not taken seriously .It's been said getting enough torque using a half inch drive socket won't work .Then how about a 3/4" drive or a torque multiplier ? On that the multiplier I have I think is 64 to 1 ratio .It wasn't that expensive at the time . This will be my last word on this subject .

 

[r7000]

why has the seal started leaking, could it be a bearing on its way out has a little play now and lets oil past the seal?

i thought I mentioned the truck has 130k miles, that would likely be the simple reason. I have zero problems with the axle otherwise, very quiet. I don't want that f'd up. There's no indication that there is any kind of "bearing on it's way out" or "any play". I've taken the suggestions seriously, i thought about the responses and then responsed on them and was kinda easy to poke holes in their validity... not to piss u off but to understand what the real deal is that no one wants to put any thought into.

I'm not exactly sure what is going on here .It's a leaky seal but every suggestion is not taken seriously .It's been said getting enough torque using a half inch drive socket won't work .Then how about a 3/4" drive or a torque multiplier ? On that the multiplier I have I think is 64 to 1 ratio .It wasn't that expensive at the time . This will be my last word on this subject .

here @ 14:45+ crushing the crush sleeve

unless you want to refute this video as not realistic, on the demonstration of crushing the crush sleeve and what it takes, I continue to ask...

on an existing crush sleeve that's been set, in service for 130k miles with zero problems, how can I possibly over tighten the pinon nut when reinstalling by hand using a 1/2 wrench? Would the existing crush sleeve not act as a solid spacer when considering regular human strength and a simple half inch wrench going to ~150lb-ft max? Even ~200 lbft. Because I would have to further crush the crush sleeve to cause more pinion bearing preload than what there was before disassembly would I not? That was the initial process when doing the crush sleeve was is not?

The posted video above of sam's trucks and his "it's pretty close I hope it doesn't blow apart".... makes me chuckle still when I think about that.
If the kid was able to tighten the pinion nut... by hand... actually back to the original location where it was before disassembly then what does that mean? When you know the crush sleeve took some 400 lbft to get it to crush to that original dimension? This is the technical understanding I was looking to hear about if anyone was inclined to talk about... rather than a this is how it's done gfy you don't need to know anymore than that kind of answer. The kid was probably off a complete rotation of the pinion nut in that video. And there was no mention of measured rotating torque afterwards to verify, just a thumbs up good to go, no reason to think that has any credibility in being correct.

an oemtools tq multipler @ autozone is $700 not a rental, others on amazon < $300 but I don't know if i'd trust them, knowing what I am getting myself into in my driveway once i begin to undo the pinion nut and the question is/was do I need to use a new crush sleeve and why or can the existing crush sleeve be reused and why. And to a lesser extent the purpose of the crush sleeve - which is not to "specifically set bearing preload" it's purpose is to (a) serve as a means compression to achieve pinion shaft tension on the pinion nut and (b) more importantly a forceful press against that outer pinion bearing which slid on onto the pinion shaft so it needs to be secured from that bearing inner portion rotating on the pinion shaft which is what everyone fails to comprehend. the bearing preload everyone jumps on as the reason simply happens from how much distance is taken up by tighening down the nut on the pinion shaft and can actually be done without using a crush sleeve or solid spacer..

 

[redneckhillbilly]

what have you gotten done so far?
you taken the cover off yet?

 

[redneckhillbilly]

straight from Alldata.
mark everything, remove yoke and seal, install new and tighten it bàck up

 

[GTSAW]

I don't want to follow the science and do it the way everyone else does it simply because that's what everyone does. I want to understand what's actually in play.

and to say "just put a dimple on the nut" is easier said than done. how easy to do you think it could be to be off a 1 (or more) complete nut rotations, given the fine thread pitch of the pinion/nut, which I think is 30mm x 2.0; it takes a 36mm 12-point socket. a course pitch is 30 x 3.5mm. So be totally accurate having to count rotations of the nut taking it off, while under the truck, using a 3' breaker bar, no thanks. From what I have being trying to eleborate on, i should not have to count nut rotations, it won't matter re-tightening by hand.

thus far no one has provided any sound argument refuting my statements/questions.

"All day every day in every shop in the USA"

and why do people loathe bringing their car in for service, even to the dealer?

With a nice sharp punch stake the nut and pinion threads giving you a mark to return to. I've also done this many times, add red Loctite and use a 1/2 impact to the burp the nut back to the mark, a little beyond won't hurt. I'm sure your local dealer would be happy to do the job for you.

 

[GTSAW]

Next time I'll look at dates before I spout off.

 

[legdelimber]

I'm glad to see people have some input. No matter when they find a thread.
Never know who of us may find it later when we need that info.
Personally, I like for threads to say used when the info is about the same topic.

 

[redneckhillbilly]

te OP was more interested in starting a debate, rather than fix his truck

 

[Funky sawman]

Crush sleeve eliminator, thats all i use, a shim pack stacked to set pre load. This job of setting up rear ends is the one i hate most, but im good at it do people are always asking me to take the job

 

[r7000]

so while i sort of appreciate the feedback, there was a lot stated in here that i do not believe to be realistic, and i don't agree with. i'll leave it at that. here was my experience, for your entertainment...

- i did get an AAM crush sleeve eliminator, planning on going that route hoping i could pull the pinion bearing out the front.
- totally not the case, after tapping on the pinion snout to try to bring the front pinion off, that bearing is pressed on just as tight as the inner bearing that is set against the oem shims and the pinion side.
- after that little bit finding out that was not going to work, that little bit of tapping screwed up the pinion threads to where I could not get either my old nor new pinion nut to thread on more than 1/2 a turn
- tried using a thread file, like $20, to clean up threads. Did not work, so i ended up buying a 30mm x 2.0mm die to re-thread.
- amazon purchase of a drill america one - complete counterfeit sent, had drill america sticker with 30 x 2.0 mm but had some SAE NPT tap in it
- finally got the correct die, from amazon, a week or 2 later
- ended up rethreading the entire pinion threads exposed out the front of the axle; i thought i would get away with only doing the first 1/2" at most, nope. so fwiw, never tap on a used pinion snout even with the nut on if you plan on re-using it.
- rethreading a 30mm thread, that is pinion type steel, not easy. but i was successful.
- got it so i could hand thread either the old or new nut all the way down
- prior to pulling the old pinion nut off, with the floating axles removed so when turning the pinion and just the carrier, the rotating torque was immeasurable. very very light and free spinning, with diff oil removed. That was having ~130k miles on it never touched.
- so the crush sleeve eliminator was no way unless totally pulling apart the diff
- new pinion seal went on, using white dope on the splines and then green diff permatex on the seal metal that mates to the diff housing; needed 3" pvc coupler as a seal driver to press in to diff housing
- rented a #57309 3/4" torque wrench from autozone, was $350, and 3 feet long
- tightened nut to the "advertised" 150 lbft, tried measuring with my inch-lb tq 1/4 dial tw wrench... was an amazon purchase for ~$200 but had the resolution in 5-15 inch lb range, didn't even register 1 inch lb. and to think you really need an inch-lb wrench versus feel by hand, compared to how it was having zero rotational drag prior to removing the nut, is like thinking you need a tq wrench to know how to tighten a drain plug or diff cover.
- so using the autozone 3/4 tq wrench I tightened the nut slowly past 150 to 200 to 250 lb-feet while still having zero rotational drag. this is where i disagree with the whole mark the nut and tighten back to original location. that is wrong. you need to tighten it to wherever to where you get an acceptable amount of preload, and...
- the fact that the crush sleeve will not crush without some 500+ lb-ft of torque, you are not going to over torque it by hand even using a 1/2" 1-foot long ratchet. Maybe if you used a 1/2" good air impact.
- i ended up tightening the nut, using the new nut from the AAM pinion seal package, and using blue locktite in addition to the dry red color that came inside the nut, to somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 lb-ft in the end using the autozone tq wrench.... on my re-threaded threads. At that point I just started to feel slight rotational drag rotating the pinion with axles removed, it was not as free spinning as it was prior to oem pinion nut removal but i could recognize the preload [rotational drag] beginning to happen and felt good.
- i don't remember if i measured that rotational drag, i wanna say it was at least 5 inch-lb; i wasn't going to worry about that so-called preload inch-lb window to shoot for given what I felt was correct now versus how it had been having zero prior to working on it. and I wasn't going to overtighten it. Not to mention at that 300 lb-ft level I was basically deadlifting on the tq wrench and couldn't move it any more, even when trying a breaker bar over the 3' torque wrench to give me like 5' of leverage... and still did not move the nut, so good enough. It isn't coming loose. So this, per the youtube i linked earlier... if u want to believe that... showing the guys under a 3/4 + ton style truck on a lift some 8' above using like a 6' breaker bar and how they describe how hard it is to crush that crush sleeve... is why i disagree with the regurgitation of "just mark the nut and tighten it back to the same place". if u do that, please show the preload you obtained. u are undertightended.
- i have maybe 1000 miles on truck since doing this this summer, everything is quiet and dry regarding the diff, which is all i can say at this point. I don't drive it much.

 

[lehman live edge slab]

so while i sort of appreciate the feedback, there was a lot stated in here that i do not believe to be realistic, and i don't agree with. i'll leave it at that. here was my experience, for your entertainment...

- i did get an AAM crush sleeve eliminator, planning on going that route hoping i could pull the pinion bearing out the front.
- totally not the case, after tapping on the pinion snout to try to bring the front pinion off, that bearing is pressed on just as tight as the inner bearing that is set against the oem shims and the pinion side.
- after that little bit finding out that was not going to work, that little bit of tapping screwed up the pinion threads to where I could not get either my old nor new pinion nut to thread on more than 1/2 a turn
- tried using a thread file, like $20, to clean up threads. Did not work, so i ended up buying a 30mm x 2.0mm die to re-thread.
- amazon purchase of a drill america one - complete counterfeit sent, had drill america sticker with 30 x 2.0 mm but had some SAE NPT tap in it
- finally got the correct die, from amazon, a week or 2 later
- ended up rethreading the entire pinion threads exposed out the front of the axle; i thought i would get away with only doing the first 1/2" at most, nope. so fwiw, never tap on a used pinion snout even with the nut on if you plan on re-using it.
- rethreading a 30mm thread, that is pinion type steel, not easy. but i was successful.
- got it so i could hand thread either the old or new nut all the way down
- prior to pulling the old pinion nut off, with the floating axles removed so when turning the pinion and just the carrier, the rotating torque was immeasurable. very very light and free spinning, with diff oil removed. That was having ~130k miles on it never touched.
- so the crush sleeve eliminator was no way unless totally pulling apart the diff
- new pinion seal went on, using white dope on the splines and then green diff permatex on the seal metal that mates to the diff housing; needed 3" pvc coupler as a seal driver to press in to diff housing
- rented a #57309 3/4" torque wrench from autozone, was $350, and 3 feet long
- tightened nut to the "advertised" 150 lbft, tried measuring with my inch-lb tq 1/4 dial tw wrench... was an amazon purchase for ~$200 but had the resolution in 5-15 inch lb range, didn't even register 1 inch lb. and to think you really need an inch-lb wrench versus feel by hand, compared to how it was having zero rotational drag prior to removing the nut, is like thinking you need a tq wrench to know how to tighten a drain plug or diff cover.
- so using the autozone 3/4 tq wrench I tightened the nut slowly past 150 to 200 to 250 lb-feet while still having zero rotational drag. this is where i disagree with the whole mark the nut and tighten back to original location. that is wrong. you need to tighten it to wherever to where you get an acceptable amount of preload, and...
- the fact that the crush sleeve will not crush without some 500+ lb-ft of torque, you are not going to over torque it by hand even using a 1/2" 1-foot long ratchet. Maybe if you used a 1/2" good air impact.
- i ended up tightening the nut, using the new nut from the AAM pinion seal package, and using blue locktite in addition to the dry red color that came inside the nut, to somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 lb-ft in the end using the autozone tq wrench.... on my re-threaded threads. At that point I just started to feel slight rotational drag rotating the pinion with axles removed, it was not as free spinning as it was prior to oem pinion nut removal but i could recognize the preload [rotational drag] beginning to happen and felt good.
- i don't remember if i measured that rotational drag, i wanna say it was at least 5 inch-lb; i wasn't going to worry about that so-called preload inch-lb window to shoot for given what I felt was correct now versus how it had been having zero prior to working on it. and I wasn't going to overtighten it. Not to mention at that 300 lb-ft level I was basically deadlifting on the tq wrench and couldn't move it any more, even when trying a breaker bar over the 3' torque wrench to give me like 5' of leverage... and still did not move the nut, so good enough. It isn't coming loose. So this, per the youtube i linked earlier... if u want to believe that... showing the guys under a 3/4 + ton style truck on a lift some 8' above using like a 6' breaker bar and how they describe how hard it is to crush that crush sleeve... is why i disagree with the regurgitation of "just mark the nut and tighten it back to the same place". if u do that, please show the preload you obtained. u are undertightended.
- i have maybe 1000 miles on truck since doing this this summer, everything is quiet and dry regarding the diff, which is all i can say at this point. I don't drive it much.

Well apparently going back to marks and a touch past is enough with the old crush sleeve in place. One of the guys telling you to do this is one of the main factory techs at a large gm dealer that works on every part of the trucks including that 10 speed automatic when it has issues. Bet this guys changed a seal or two and knows what he’s doing.