Full Chisel VS. Semi Chisel Chain Performance

[Philbert]

A lot of discussion on why full-chisel chain cuts faster than semi-chisel chain that is filed / ground at the same angles. Aside from the narrower entry of the sharp 'point' or 'corner' on full-chisel cutters, the attached diagram shows one theory / explanation from an old book: Barnacle Parp's Chain Saw Guide (yes, that's the real name of the book).


I have tried to present this conceptually in another way, if that is helpful:


Thoughts? Comments? Insights?

Philbert

 

[RI Chevy]

Not sure on the specifics, but I just go by actual trial and error.
I take the same piece of wood and use same saw with both freshly sharpened chains. Time the cuts and go by feel and seat of the pants.
From my experiences, full chisel cuts faster than semi chisel in clean wood. Green or seasoned.

 

[Philbert]

Here is one of the negative aspects of full-chisel chains that I sometimes see. The small, sharp corner or 'point' of the cutter has very little metal to support it if it hits something hard (knot, dirt, embedded wire, bullet, stone, etc.). This can bend it, along with dulling the edges or point. The bent corner can actually push the cutter away from the wood, rather than directing it into the wood.



Once this happens, I have to remove enough material to get back to a clean edge: people often blame grinders for removing too much of the cutter, but this metal needs to be removed by file, Dremel, rabid ferret, etc.

Semi-chisel cutters can be damaged by the same stuff, but are much less likely to bend at the corner; they just get dulled edges. Sharpening these cutters requires removing less metal, so the chain may have a longer cutting life, as well as time between sharpenings.

Philbert

 

[RI Chevy]

Good point Sir...
Semi-chisel is much more forgiving than full-chisel.

 

[jakethesnake]

Technique for sharpening with a rabid ferret?? Pretty good explanation as usual philbert

 

[Pincher]

As far as why the semi chisel cuts slower, the actual working surface on the cutter is longer due to the radius.

 

[RI Chevy]

I didn't know that. Interesting

 

[Wonkydonkey]

Think of a full chisel as a sharp point = less resistance
And think of a semi chisel a wider point = more resistance


You can think of whatever analogy you like to prove this, beit with just a change of the front of, a car, motorcycle, truck, boat,

 

[drf256]

I love how full chisel cuts, but I’d take semi any day for production.

When one adds up the time it takes to file/swap chains/slowdowns from dullness, the SC seems to win.

A member close to me is playing with Stihl Duro (carbide semichisel) and trying to produce the ultimate work chain. The profile on the tooth is just terrible from the factory, but he has modded it to the point where it is cutting close to an RS and rarely need a quick touch up with a diamond file.

I use 404 SC for firewood production and don’t think I’ll ever go back.

Here’s the modded DURO. It’s gonna get many more tanks on it for testing. Actually noodled better than it crosscut and every tooth stayed sharp and intact. This may be the ultimate work chain. The saw is super fat in the vid.

 

[drf256]

Gonna rename the above chain “The Honey Badger” chain, cause it don’t give a fućk.

 

[Wilhelm]

Clean/shape the gullet of a Stihl Rapid Duro 3 identical to the gullet of a Stihl Picco Duro 3 and it should cut great.

For whatever reason Stihl left a lot of excess meat in the gullet of their Rapid Duro 3.

 

[BlacknTan]

Here is one of the negative aspects of full-chisel chains that I sometimes see. The small, sharp corner or 'point' of the cutter has very little metal to support it if it hits something hard (knot, dirt, embedded wire, bullet, stone, etc.). This can bend it, along with dulling the edges or point. The bent corner can actually push the cutter away from the wood, rather than directing it into the wood.

View attachment 215924

Once this happens, I have to remove enough material to get back to a clean edge: people often blame grinders for removing too much of the cutter, but this metal needs to be removed by file, Dremel, rabid ferret, etc.

Semi-chisel cutters can be damaged by the same stuff, but are much less likely to bend at the corner; they just get dulled edges. Sharpening these cutters requires removing less metal, so the chain may have a longer cutting life, as well as time between sharpenings.

Philbert

Agreed 100%, and if I was cutting to put food on the table, I'd use semi chisel.

Some of my chains don't last as long as they should, because I take the corner back to dead sharp whenever it needs it. I've taken to more frequent sharpenings for this reason. Besides, I look at it the same way I look at gundogs, cars and women... Flashier is always better... and much more thrilling!

As cars and women goes... at least that's what I remember it to be!

 

[huskyboy]

Semi chisel for firewood/cutting on the landing. Full chisel for felling clean timber. Semi doesn’t bore cut worth two shíts is it’s biggest disadvantage in a felling situation. Semi cuts slower than full chisel as everyone already knows, but it holds a edge better in dirty wood. Choose the right chain for the job is what it comes down to.

 

[~WBF]

Semi chisel for firewood/cutting on the landing. Full chisel for felling clean timber. Semi doesn’t bore cut worth two shíts is it’s biggest disadvantage in a felling situation. Semi cuts slower than full chisel as everyone already knows, but it holds a edge better in dirty wood. Choose the right chain for the job is what it comes down to.

That'snotthepoinsosiddownjunior

J/k

 

[Philbert]

. . . if I was cutting to put food on the table, I'd use semi chisel.

Does it make a difference if one is an arborist versus a firewood cutter? Does one leave a cleaner / smoother edge when pruning large limbs?

Thoughts or experiences?


Philbert

 

[Duane(Pa)]

I have a pole saw with 1/4 SC. Stays sharp forever.

I bought a loop of picco duro (carbide) to flush cut stumps. It has not been on the saw yet. Hard to convince myself that it’s ok to cut that close to the rocks and dirt. IIRC, it was crazy expensive.

 

[BlacknTan]

Does it make a difference if one is an arborist versus a firewood cutter? Does one leave a cleaner / smoother edge when pruning large limbs?

Thoughts or experiences?


Philbert

No, no difference at all.

I just have the luxury of stopping and sharpening a chain whenever the need arises, and then having lunch if I feel like it. I haven't punched a timeclock in alot of years, and I still enjoy that!

 

[RI Chevy]

I also tend to touch the chain up every time I fuel up. Only takes a few minutes. Saw runs and cuts so much better.
Gives me a breather and I grab some water while I'm at it too...[emoji106]

 

[Duane(Pa)]

I also tend to touch the chain up every time I fuel up. Only takes a few minutes. Saw runs and cuts so much better.
Gives me a breather and I grab some water while I'm at it too...[emoji106]

Gotta be safer too. I get clumsy when I push too hard... chaps, chaps, chaps!

 

[RI Chevy]

Yes sir. Good point. Safety is paramount when working by yourself. PPE is a must.