Falling trees against natural lean

[fearofpavement]

I often rope trees but I am almost always felling in a residential situation. If it absolutely positively must fall in a particular place, pulling it is the best insurance policy. I have lots of ropes, blocks and other rigging stuff because if one rolls down the mountain in the forest, ya might lose the tree but not a house or garage or swimming pool or fence or...

 

[Adirondackstihl]

Siswheel & soft Dutchman.......maybe

 

[junkman]

Im gonna get a guy i used to work with text me the picture from summer of 2014 when we were on a job and he sent one uphill and it slid back down after it bounced and pinned his ankle against a stump...its a very discouraging picture.

This is why i was told to lay them sideways on the hill ,even if they do roll ,you are not going to get run over ,logic wants you to get them as close to the road as possible ,but it is not safe to fall up a hill for the reason you just posted .The stump at bottom of that hill i posted i did have to fall uphill ,because a creek was to the side ,i got lucky and it slid into the stump and stopped though ,i ran like a little girl as it went over on that one .The one where the saw was on ,i just wedged it over standing on the uphill side and watched it go over ,actually had to fall that one also onto another one that got hung up in a tree ,i was glad it took the stuck one down ,if 2 were hung up that would have sucked .

When yarding up a hill with cable you pretty much need a pully/snatch block up in a tree to lift the front of the log so it does not dig in when yarding it up the hill ,an excavator or backhoe bucket in the air can work as a pully point if no trees around to put a block into .Just has to be high enough up to lift the log a bit .

 

[exSW]

Gravity sucks. Always.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Gravity sucks. Always.

LMAO
Yup!

 

[Chainsaw Jim]

There's a whole forest of trees you chose not to cut, three more won't put you out of business. Move on and forget them.

 

[MustangMike]

I often rope trees but I am almost always felling in a residential situation. If it absolutely positively must fall in a particular place, pulling it is the best insurance policy. I have lots of ropes, blocks and other rigging stuff because if one rolls down the mountain in the forest, ya might lose the tree but not a house or garage or swimming pool or fence or...

or power line ...

 

[fearofpavement]

or power line ...

I've made some sparkies before... I usually steer clear of trees with wires in them. I "just say no".
A lot of trees could reach power lines but in reality that would be a lot cheaper than taking out a structure... I rope almost everything...

 

[Rob Stafari]

I've felled a few trees 90 degrees against their pretty heavy lean, but am by no means an expert. I will say that even with a pull rope and good healthy hinge wood the trees swung about 30 degrees with the hinge then it let loose and fell in the direction it was leaning at that moment.

 

[MustangMike]

Yea, usually about 30 degrees away from the lean, if the hinge is solid, is what I am comfortable with. Otherwise, if the direction is critical, rope it. (Not necessarily in the direction you want it to fall, but opposite the direction you do not want it to fall).

 

[jmssaws]

Im gonna get a guy i used to work with text me the picture from summer of 2014 when we were on a job and he sent one uphill and it slid back down after it bounced and pinned his ankle against a stump...its a very discouraging picture.

My first cousin had that happen with a 24" hickory but it drove his leg a foot in the ground,couldn't reach his saw so he laid there a hour waiting for the skidder to shut off so they could hear him yell.
Took a couple operations and 6 months to heal,almost exactly a year after he got back to work he got the same leg again only by himself this time,got a stick and drug his saw over and cut the 30" oak that had his leg drove in the ground then drug himself a long way to his truck and drove a hour to the hospital.
Took a year to heal from that one but he's killing trees again.

Pitching trees uphill is not something I like doing and I'm betting he don't either.

 

[sawmikaze]

My first cousin had that happen with a 24" hickory but it drove his leg a foot in the ground,couldn't reach his saw so he laid there a hour waiting for the skidder to shut off so they could hear him yell.
Took a couple operations and 6 months to heal,almost exactly a year after he got back to work he got the same leg again only by himself this time,got a stick and drug his saw over and cut the 30" oak that had his leg drove in the ground then drug himself a long way to his truck and drove a hour to the hospital.
Took a year to heal from that one but he's killing trees again.

Pitching trees uphill is not something I like doing and I'm betting he don't either.

Tales from the wood.

 

[weedkilla]

I think enough has been said to probably talk OP out of this - but one thing not discussed is the fact you are talking about dead trees. I'd never want to put myself in a situation where I asked a dead tree to hold a hinge trying to do anything clever. Certainly not in a situation where I had limited escape routes.

 

[Carbine]

Maybe I don't understand a couple of responses here...
Trying to wedge a tree 180 degrees from its lean (when it's natural direction of fall is a roadway especially) is stupid. As is cutting a tree with a leaner tied into it.

What JJ said is the only good option, with your only other option being to sidehill that tree. Putting a face in at 90 degrees and a soft Dutch like that video would be your only other bet. But not with the amount of lean that you are saying that tree has. If it's even close to 45, it's going to go where it's leaning, without having something tied into it.
If you can tie into it and pull it, nothing wrong with leaving your back cut a smidge lower than your hinge either, it will have more hold on the stump, especially if the core of the tree is crappy or has much rot.

 

[XP_Slinger]

Lots of good techniques and advice in this thread. I am by no means a pro feller but have enough experience to know when to walk away and let them stand. Your situation sounds extremely risky. Whether you're pulling or wedging, you'll be loading the hinged with a ton of unpredictable energy. Especially considering you're dealing with standing dead stuff, unpredictable holding strength x100. I'm sure we've all at some point had a tree spin off a stump in a manner that we didn't foresee. I personally wouldnt attempt doing what you've described without a winch on a bull dozer and tannerite. ..lol. stay safe brother.

 

[Normzilla]

Since we have been discussing wedges...

I am hoping to stimulate some discussion regarding falling trees against their lean. I have seen the pros use tree jacks to save big timber. I don't have that technology.

I am a firewooder with reasonable confidence falling trees. I came upon some decent 30"+ Douglas Firs along a fire road. The road is 25' above the base of the trees. The side hill is steep. If I stand on the downhill side, the uphill side is about 6'-8' higher. I have a marginal escape route.

I need to fall the trees uphill so I can put them up onto the road. 1 tree has a decently bad lean - it wants to go downhill at a 45 degree angle to the road. Another tree has a living tree leaning into it about 60' up - the living tree either grew crooked or blew into it at some point. It will probably prevent it from going downhill, however I will need to stand beneath the leaner as I fall the dead tree. Did I mention marginal escape route?

So, for the more experienced guys, any advice, encouragement, or discouragement?

If I am trying to wedge them over, I cannot leave much holding wood in the hinge.

Sorry, no pictures.

If your life depends on it you better always leave enough holding wood on the hinge. Hard leaners healthy wood or not, wedges or not. They can still go over backwards. I agree with fearofpavement, bull rope. Or fall it downhill yard it up. But as discussed in here as well dead trees can be unpredictable, holding wood stumps, tops. I walk into every tree situation, like it's boobie trapped. I've encountered scary and unbelievable things in my tree years. And middle of the night take downs, or downed trees. Just my opinion, but if you size it up like you are walking into an ambush, you may see things, you would not have normally. Uphill trees, holding wood and stumpshot are extra critical. And always use a Humboldt face uphill. Definitely don't do this one alone, you will need help. Rigging etc. But it's good to have other eyes on it as well, and far safer. I have many production cutter friends. I have always admired them. They go in alone, and don't have the luxuries I do. Bull ropes, blocks, crew or helper, equipment agent needed. They go in saw wedges and Jack. And there may be more ways to die in the woods, or at least as much....

 

[Normzilla]

Tie them off up high with a re-direct using a block hung out in front of where you want to drop them. Apply tension on the set-up using a come-along or rope grab.

Those throw lines and weights have helped me move mountains I second what you said this is what I would do.

 

[Normzilla]

And O.p and others, that are concerned for holding wood or unpredictable jump off the stump. We have had a few situations, mainly near buildins, but deadmanned the butt, well it's our term whether proper or not. But second bull rope to the tree butt, one pulls the tree, one holds the butt.

 

[Four Paws]

Lots of good information, guys. I appreciate the caution and concern, and also the technical suggestions for getting them down safely.

These trees are 1yo beetle kill. They are solid and the bark is still on. What makes them enticing is their proximity to the fire road. I can't roll in with heavy equipment, but if I can get them to fall in a desirable fashion, I can yank them up on the road with my wood truck and have safe and easy blocking and loading!

I would not attempt alone. Nor would I venture in without gear, a well thought plan.

 

[cgraham1]

Douglas Firs typically rot from the outside in. Rarely would you find a tree that was not solid in the middle, even if the outside is a little soft. The concern about the tree being 'dead' is really not a concern in a DF, and in fact, most firewood trees I drop are standing dead Firs.