eXmark (Kawasaki fr691v motor) not getting gas, at wit's end

[livemusic]

Suffice to say, I have done everything I and advisors have said to do (except one... more later).

Short version... The mower suddenly quit while mowing. The only way I made it to my garage was huge amount of choke, even full choke. Ran very rough at times and would go dead. Finally did go dead again and wouldn't crank. (And did this many times after.)

Suspected bad fuel, checked it. Read 1-2% water. Disassembled carb and cleaned it. No fix. Determined that the fuel pump was not getting gas to the carb.

Checked all of the lines, all clear. Except, I did not check the short line from the fuel pump to the motor crankcase or wherever it goes, it's the impulse line. Too hard to get to, I don't even know how to get to it. However, if I put my thumb over the impulse line after disconnecting that end from the carb, I felt suction.

Somewhere along the way in here, I suspected bad gas again because that is what it acted like. I could get it going on full choke and then limp along with some choke down to not choke and such but it was often very rough.

I tested the gas again. This time, I read 5% water. Did I misread it first time?

I use e-free gas. I put in Seafoam at some point, which helped temporarily, which really confuses me based on this whole story. I also added octane booster on the advice of someone. Didn't work. I had wanted to add Heet and did after the octane booster didn't do anything.

Screw it... siphoned all the gas out of the tank that I could. But there was still gas in there, it's a multi-tiered tank, didn't get it all.

Installed a gravity feed nurse tank; the mower ran pretty much normal. Back to thinking it is simply not getting fuel.

Bought after market fuel pump, installed, no go. Bought OEM fuel pump, installed, no go. Bought another after market fuel pump, no go.

After suspecting fuel pump problems and not getting anywhere with all of this, my neighbor said "I'd just forget all about the fuel pump and install an electric pump; anytime the key is on, it's running, bypass the fuel pump setup." I was thinking that sounds kinda crazy, why wouldn't eXmark do that but I searched youtube and found a bunch of people do that.

So, now I am ready to do that but I want to ask... what is the negative? Is there any harm here? The fact the I have installed three fuel pumps and none of them work points me to the impulse line, something being wrong there. It could be a compression problem? But it ran fine on the nurse tank!

So, if I install an electric pump and just disregard what else could be wrong, and if it then runs, the fact that I really never did solve the issue, is this a bad move?

I am not anything close to expert, so, if this electric pump idea is bad or if I do it and it does not work, I will have to take it to a dealer and that means prolly $400 or more cuz that is what it always costs! I can do that but would rather fix it on my own. But, close to giving up.

Mower is ten years old, the motor has never given me any trouble. I do the maintenance. I have done repairs since I found out what the dealer charges, lol.

EDIT: Fuel filter was also changed.

 

[nbbt]

Is there a fuel shut off solenoid, many Kaw's have one, or how is the in-line fuel filter? Was it replaced as part of this exercise? Just thinking out loud.

 

[Shane¹]

If it runs fine off a separate tank I would think fuel line might be collapsing or fuel filter might be plugged up. I would replace fuel filter and possibly fuel lines got to be some reason why fuel pumps are not pumping fuel

 

[livemusic]

I

s there a fuel shut off solenoid, many Kaw's have one, or how is the in-line fuel filter? Was it replaced as part of this exercise? Just thinking out loud.

I did change the fuel filter. On the bottom of the carb, that is the solenoid, right? I am recalling making sure a plunger goes up and down; maybe I did that when I cleaned the carb. My neighbor, I also recall him pulling that wire connector out and reinserting. BUT... I need to get my circuit tester light make sure it is getting power?

However, it ran fine on the nurse tank, does that confuse things?

EDIT: I can't see how it could be the solenoid since the fuel pump does not appear to be pumping gas, and the fuel pump is before the carb in the flow of things. Again, it seems like an impulse line problem. But remember, I do not know much! Whatever the problem is, my neighbor says just put the electric pump on! He seems to know a lot about small engines. Also used to run a parts house.

 

[livemusic]

If it runs fine off a separate tank I would think fuel line might be collapsing or fuel filter might be plugged up. I would replace fuel filter and possibly fuel lines got to be some reason why fuel pumps are not pumping fuel

I actually know of a shade tree mechanic who had a crazy problem like this and it ended up being fuel lines he was using which were not 'stiff' enough. Took him a long time to determine that it was the problem. These are OEM lines, ten years old. Can I just replace them with fuel line like you can buy at an auto parts store or Amazon?

I inspected these (except I did not remove the impulse line, as I said... looks hard to get to) and these looked fine but I suppose they could be 'worn out?'

 

[Shane¹]

Were you running it with other tank gravity feed or using the fuel pump?

 

[livemusic]

Were you running it with other tank gravity feed or using the fuel pump?

As stated in OP, "Installed a gravity feed nurse tank."

And I used another fuel line that I rigged up.

EDIT: That just made me think of something. I could rig up the nurse tank and put it into the fuel pump and that could rule out the gas tank/line being an issue. If it worked. Of course, if it did not work, it could be the fuel pump. But I just can't see how three new fuel pumps are all going to be bad.

 

[Shane¹]

Exactly what I was thinking if you hook up the nurse tank to the pump and it runs fine has to be a restriction of some sort from tank to pump.

 

[nbbt]

With rubber fuel lines I've observed the inner portion collapsing restricting the flow. Try replace the lines that were not bypassed with your nurse tank setup.

 

[Woodpecker]

I had a similar problem on a brand new piece of ope. Sometimes it would run most of the time it would act like it was starving for gas. Ended up being a faulty tank vent in the gas cap on a brand new piece of equipment. Sometimes weird stuff happens.

 

[GMB74]

If you keep finding water in your gas, and you cannot get ALL the gas out of the tank, there is still water in the gas.
The stuff you leave in there is mostly water, being heavier than gas. You are just dumping good gas on top of bad gas.
Can you rig up the fuel pump to pull off the nurse tank and confirm the pump is working properly?
If it does, you need to fully empty and dry out that tank.

 

[livemusic]

UPDATE: Going in the right direction now. I rigged up the gravity fed nurse tank to go INTO the fuel pump and it is running like a top. So, it's something between the pump and the gas tank. Hopefully, I can figure out how to get that gas tank off or completely drained, gotta get to it. Looks like take the fender off and go from there. Two things to mention... I note that there is still quite a bit of gas in there, I can see it in another spot; my siphoning def did not get it all. As I mentioned, it's a multi-tiered tank. The other thing to mention, if I haven't already, is that when I siphoned, I saw two dark slugs of something flow through the see-through siphon hose. So, maybe there is crud stopping up the outlet at the bottom of the gas tank.

I am surely relieved to have this news, at least.

EDIT: I just remembered something, there is so much I have done, I keep forgetting what all I have done! Somewhere along the way, I blew air from my air compressor into the fuel line coming from the gas tank and it bubbled up gas in there just fine, so, I surmised at that time that the line/tank was clear. I suppose this could mean (if it is, indeed, clear) that maybe the fuel line between the pump (upstream of the fuel filter) is collapsing? Also, I suppose there could be crud in there that, even though it bubbled the gas that is left in there, the crud could settle back into the outlet.

 

[Shane¹]

Thats good news so you have it narrowed down to bad gas or a restriction somewhere so on the home stretch now

 

[livemusic]

What the heck! I took the fender off, gas tank is right there. Took the fuel line off the top, peered into it. Could see clearly. There is only one piece of trash in there, a catkin from an oak tree. That could only get in there via the fuel cap being open and the wind blew it into the tank. But get this... there is a red plastic cap of some sorts in there! I don't know what it is, looks kinda like the top off of a bottle of gear lube, lol. Except it is not tapered, it is all the same diameter and is about 3/4 inch long. How the heck can I get that out? The opening at the top of the tank where the fuel line goes into a rubber grommet (which I have removed) is only about 1/2 inch wide. Chopsticks? Hey, I just thought of something... I could wad some sticky tape onto the end of a chopstick and stick it down in there and fish it out; when I was a kid, that is how I would sometimes get a guitar pick out of a guitar soundhole! Of course, I could remove the entire tank but not sure how to do that. There are two clips at the bottom of the tank holding it in place and I don't know how to 'unclip' those. Anyway, I will try the chopstick/tape method, lol. This is bizarre. I could see how, maybe, that red plastic cap could get pulled into the gas pickup tube and stop flow? Not sure, but it COULD be the problem.

I have no idea how that cap could get in there other than dropping into it when refueling. When I get it out, maybe I can take a pic.

EDIT: Lo and behold, I told my brother about this and he said get a piece of wire and stab a hole in it and pull it out. Nope, can't stab it, it's hard plastic. But, might be able to put a hook in the wire end and hook the open end and pull out. THEN, later he came to my house, he had forgotten about a tool he has. It might be exactly what I need. Online, I see a "flex cable pick up tool 4-finger claw end pickup snake." Perfect! That is, if I can see good enough to grab it. I still can't figure out how to unclip the gas tank but I am going to ask a shadetree mechanic friend and if anybody will know the technique, it's him.

 

[stretch5881]

To check the fuel pump, pull the hose off the carburetor and crank the engine. Either it works or it don't. Most likely water is still your issue. You will need to drain the tank completely. If water got into the fuel filter, the filter will need to be replaced. If a drop of water got into the carburetor, it will plug the jet, not allowing the fuel to reach the cylinder. Start with the tank, then filter, then carburetor.

 

[livemusic]

A friend of mine figured out how to get the clips off that hold the gas tank in -- PULL the clip. I was sure hesitant to mess up because no telling what a gas tank costs for an eXmark. He agree with that! He works on mowers a lot.

I got the mower going! Removed the tank and was able fish that red cap out with extra-long pliers. Assembled the mower, cranked readily once the carb sucked gasoline through the lines and is running normally.

That friend of mine who is excellent shade tree mechanic doubted that the cap could get sucked up tight to the pick-up tube to give me the PITA symptoms but turns out I was right, it appears that it was the cap, indeed! This has been something else.

Hard for me to post pics, if I can, I will. Would love to know what this red cap is. Says "FLATS" on it and also "SQUEEZE & TURN." The cap is just about exactly the width of a quarter. Only way it could get in the tank is at manufacture or the fuel cap had to be off and somebody dropped it in. I do not recognize the cap at all, I don't think I did it. Third possibility... a neighbor kid dropped it in there.

This all started after I let a worker use this mower on my yard. He's worked for me for many years but I have never let him mow. The first friggin day, he disappeared and I could not find him. I thought he stole my dang mower, he just ran off with it! Where is he! Finally found him. Nose first into the six foot deep drainage ditch that borders my property. It is a wonder it didn't kill him. A testament to the mower's toughness. Me m brother got it out with my tractor and FEL, just picked it up and dragged it out. The worker assured me he is familiar with the zero turn eXmark and that he mows with them at other yards. I then had him demonstrate to me that he could, indeed operate it. So, before he took off, I went down to the ditch bordering the yard and mowed three passes by the ditch. I had a friggin premonition. I came back and said "Don't get anywhere near that ditch." How the hell did he end up in it? I have no idea except when I said "I gave you TWELVE FEET! How in the world did you do this!" He said something like he tried to stop it but it just took off. I said no. Didn't happen. You just flat pushed forward on the sticks, had to. Plus, why were you even pointed at the ditch! Was supposed to be mowing parallel. I dunno, this guy is a trip. But, shows up, and doesn't steal and works steadily at whatever.

 

[stretch5881]

A friend of mine figured out how to get the clips off that hold the gas tank in -- PULL the clip. I was sure hesitant to mess up because no telling what a gas tank costs for an eXmark. He agree with that! He works on mowers a lot.

I got the mower going! Removed the tank and was able fish that red cap out with extra-long pliers. Assembled the mower, cranked readily once the carb sucked gasoline through the lines and is running normally.

That friend of mine who is excellent shade tree mechanic doubted that the cap could get sucked up tight to the pick-up tube to give me the PITA symptoms but turns out I was right, it appears that it was the cap, indeed! This has been something else.

Hard for me to post pics, if I can, I will. Would love to know what this red cap is. Says "FLATS" on it and also "SQUEEZE & TURN." The cap is just about exactly the width of a quarter. Only way it could get in the tank is at manufacture or the fuel cap had to be off and somebody dropped it in. I do not recognize the cap at all, I don't think I did it. Third possibility... a neighbor kid dropped it in there.

This all started after I let a worker use this mower on my yard. He's worked for me for many years but I have never let him mow. The first friggin day, he disappeared and I could not find him. I thought he stole my dang mower, he just ran off with it! Where is he! Finally found him. Nose first into the six foot deep drainage ditch that borders my property. It is a wonder it didn't kill him. A testament to the mower's toughness. Me m brother got it out with my tractor and FEL, just picked it up and dragged it out. The worker assured me he is familiar with the zero turn eXmark and that he mows with them at other yards. I then had him demonstrate to me that he could, indeed operate it. So, before he took off, I went down to the ditch bordering the yard and mowed three passes by the ditch. I had a friggin premonition. I came back and said "Don't get anywhere near that ditch." How the hell did he end up in it? I have no idea except when I said "I gave you TWELVE FEET! How in the world did you do this!" He said something like he tried to stop it but it just took off. I said no. Didn't happen. You just flat pushed forward on the sticks, had to. Plus, why were you even pointed at the ditch! Was supposed to be mowing parallel. I dunno, this guy is a trip. But, shows up, and doesn't steal and works steadily at whatever.

Treat a worker like that good, they are hard to come by. He made a mistake and will learn from it. We all learn from our mistakes.